Hs 129 and P-47 breaks the game

[ziomax90]

what does being slow have to do with it? KT has insane range. Who cares about speed when u can 1 shot tanks at max range with 3 star vetted KT.

It is virtually impossible to kill a KT when playing against someone who knows what they are doing. With proper flank support, there is nothing...NOTHING in the allied arsenal that can penetrate it from the front from a range of 400+ meters

Hell yesterday me and another guy sent a train of ground attack on 1 KT believe 5 planes and all we did was make it fall back. After the tank fell back, I moved 2 2star fireflys out of cover from about 400-500m and every shot bounced. That is the RNG luck you have with Allies.

Hell im not calling for axis nerfs here and there. I enjoy the challenge playing allied. You kill a KT you feel like you have accomplished something.

But it really does suck when you expend all that effort into killing 1 KT, then...oh look...he just brought in another. FUBAR.

well what you do on the forums , you keep asking for nerf on axis everywhere but on the top list rank there are more people playing ally, probabily you need to play better, more smart and understand what if german HEAVY tanks keep distance and you try to fight them with tanks you gonna get owned, and you have to deal with it because thats the strenght of german heavy panzer division, and sometime when im playing my panzer division i get owned by some people using some smart tactic instead of crying on the forum about nerf here and nerf there.

 

[ziomax90]

What does cost have to do with a tank that is killable easily by nearly every division? The amount of points you wasted to call it out?

And bringing up cost doesn't help the firefly either.

the cost always count, you bring units with money and you loose money with dead unit, having more unit will give advantage to attack in the same time in more flanks and to suppression the enemy faster and easyer and also kill enemy AT easyer, and this is some how easyer in general for ally armored division with medium heavy tank with much more cheap units compare germans counterparts.
also your words about "The amount of points you wasted to call it out?" this words are pointless , complaning about something like this is like complaining when you play versus paratroopers division and get silly about their planes.

you and your friend Legiox should focus on new tactics to deal with german panzer division.

 

[IS-2]

the cost always count, you bring units with money and you loose money with dead unit, having more unit will give advantage to attack in the same time in more flanks and to suppression the enemy faster and easyer and also kill enemy AT easyer, and this is some how easyer in general for ally armored division with medium heavy tank with much more cheap units compare germans counterparts.
also your words about "The amount of points you wasted to call it out?" this words are pointless , complaning about something like this is like complaining when you play versus paratroopers division and get silly about their planes.

you and your friend Legiox should focus on new tactics to deal with german panzer division.

he is not a logic user the guy you reply to

 

[fufubear]

the cost always count, you bring units with money and you loose money with dead unit, having more unit will give advantage to attack in the same time in more flanks and to suppression the enemy faster and easyer and also kill enemy AT easyer, and this is some how easyer in general for ally armored division with medium heavy tank with much more cheap units compare germans counterparts.
also your words about "The amount of points you wasted to call it out?" this words are pointless , complaning about something like this is like complaining when you play versus paratroopers division and get silly about their planes.

you and your friend Legiox should focus on new tactics to deal with german panzer division.

Maybe you aren't understanding what I'm posting?

Your original post was about the jumbo being nearly unkillable when in reality almost every division has a weapon to kill it. Cost is irrelevant to this discussion because it's about how vulnerable the vehicle is. I never mentioned if this is balanced or not i only stated facts which is that almost every division has an 88.

 

[I WUB PUGS]

Allied equivalents actually kill tanks and also soft targets and moreover they can easily get out from a battlefield due to higher speed.

I think you must be high because I haven't seen a Tempest or a Thunderbolt kill a tank, even a shitty PzIII/IV in weeks. Like it just doesn't happen and since there are basically no critical hits in this game anymore (I swear I used to get them all the time in the betas), if you buy an Allied """"""""""Tank Killer""""""""""""""" you're the supremest of rubes.

 

[Rojan]

I think you must be high because I haven't seen a Tempest or a Thunderbolt kill a tank, even a shitty PzIII/IV in weeks. Like it just doesn't happen and since there are basically no critical hits in this game anymore (I swear I used to get them all the time in the betas), if you buy an Allied """"""""""Tank Killer""""""""""""""" you're the supremest of rubes.

Pugs if you take the P-47 the 101st get it will BTFO anything short of a panther with HE damage. I regularly blow up Stugs with them on the first pass. I don't have much experience with the Tempest AT but I see the Korean that is in the top 10 cheese with like four of them and kill KTs and shit.

 

[IS-2]

Maybe you aren't understanding what I'm posting?

Your original post was about the jumbo being nearly unkillable when in reality almost every division has a weapon to kill it. Cost is irrelevant to this discussion because it's about how vulnerable the vehicle is. I never mentioned if this is balanced or not i only stated facts which is that almost every division has an 88.

are u talking about flak 88? cos that cant kill the jumbo unless he is very close. pak 43 is in 17th SS, 21st panzer, 352nd, windhund and 716. and they are useless in windhund.

so 5/9 have pak 43 = almost every division? here is a fact: every allied division have a weapon to kill king tiger. see i am using "facts" like u.

pak 43 will still bounce range shots on jumbo. why are you only considering the vulnerability of a vehicle in a discussion but no other factor? that is not how this game works and is a contrived way of thinking for what purpose exactly?

I think you must be high because I haven't seen a Tempest or a Thunderbolt kill a tank, even a shitty PzIII/IV in weeks. Like it just doesn't happen and since there are basically no critical hits in this game anymore (I swear I used to get them all the time in the betas), if you buy an Allied """"""""""Tank Killer""""""""""""""" you're the supremest of rubes.

101st P47 bomber can 1 pass jagdpanzer IV and stugs. if not 1 pass then they are guaranteed to die to any other pass from any other bomber. heavy bombs are the killers of tanks those and typhoon AT for allies. and ofc if rocketing the side more HE damage will apply to the tank since less armour is there to absorb it. i am not saying they are on the level of HS-129 but the capability is there.

 

[I WUB PUGS]

Oh........... you mean the bomber.

I thought this person was addressing tank killers specifically. Seriously haven't seen a Typhoon AT do shit in months.

 

[fufubear]

Technically 5/9 Is almost all. Any way my point wasn't just the 88 but that almost every division has a hard counter to the jumbo. Only 12ss has no true counter but the jumbo won't kill any if their tanks anyway.

It also doesn't matter if the 88 has a chance at bouncing long range because the jumbo can't shoot back until it's practically in an autopen zone

Also why bring up the kingtiger? Did I once mention It? Or say I have trouble with It? Or is this just a way to drag the point offtopic?

 

[I WUB PUGS]

Jumbo sucks.

 

[IS-2]

Jumbo sucks.

disagree

Technically 5/9 Is almost all. Any way my point wasn't just the 88 but that almost every division has a hard counter to the jumbo. Only 12ss has no true counter but the jumbo won't kill any if their tanks anyway.

It also doesn't matter if the 88 has a chance at bouncing long range because the jumbo can't shoot back until it's practically in an autopen zone

Also why bring up the kingtiger? Did I once mention It? Or say I have trouble with It? Or is this just a way to drag the point offtopic?

wtf r u smoking.

flak 88 has 15 AP and 1200m range. so it can pen jumbo starting at 700m range (2% chance) and on. jumbo can blast it at 1000m with immunity. if you are walking a jumbo at a 1200m gun just stop plz, that is not how the game is played unless he is stunned or gonna be stunned. unless you are talking about the pak 43 in which case why are u trying to counter it with another tank when it is vulnerable to many other arms.

i brought up the king toiger not as a balance discussion but as a device for an example.

 

[fufubear]

disagree



wtf r u smoking.

flak 88 has 15 AP and 1200m range. so it can pen jumbo starting at 700m range (2% chance) and on. jumbo can blast it at 1000m with immunity. if you are walking a jumbo at a 1200m gun just stop plz, that is not how the game is played unless he is stunned or gonna be stunned. unless you are talking about the pak 43 in which case why are u trying to counter it with another tank when it is vulnerable to many other arms.

i brought up the king toiger not as a balance discussion but as a device for an example.

I never once said it was the flak 88. I never even said the word flak but I'm sure you aren't reading my posts anymore.

Second I'm not driving my jumbo up to counter a pak 43. I didnt even do that to counter the pak 41. Thing is every now and then my push gets suprised by an 88 and then there goes my tank (pun not intended).

Anyway this discussion on tactics is taking away from my original point (which seems to be a trend with you) which is that so many divisions have a counter to this unicorn you barely see that calling it nearly unkillable is false.

 

[IS-2]

I never once said it was the flak 88. I never even said the word flak but I'm sure you aren't reading my posts anymore.

Second I'm not driving my jumbo up to counter a pak 43. I didnt even do that to counter the pak 41. Thing is every now and then my push gets suprised by an 88 and then there goes my tank (pun not intended).

Anyway this discussion on tactics is taking away from my original point (which seems to be a trend with you) which is that so many divisions have a counter to this unicorn you barely see that calling it nearly unkillable is false.

you said just "88" and said it was in nearly every division... flak 88

dont play tactics game if u dont want to discuss tactics. because your entire issue with 3AD and jumbo lies in your tactics. jumbo is very strong, one of the best tanks for the cost if not THE best tank for the cost.

ah i see so your actual argument was being pedantic over his hyperbole so u are like a rat sniffing for scraps of cheese. continue on then

 

[fufubear]

you said just "88" and said it was in nearly every division... flak 88

dont play tactics game if u dont want to discuss tactics. because your entire issue with 3AD and jumbo lies in your tactics. jumbo is very strong, one of the best tanks for the cost if not THE best tank for the cost.

ah i see so your actual argument was being pedantic over his hyperbole so u are like a rat sniffing for scraps of cheese. continue on then

Yes I said 88 and when you said it was in 5/9 divisions (referring to the pak 43 specifically) i responded to that directly. Like I said, you aren't reading my posts.

I'm talking about how one unit is able to be killed by any division fairly easy. Tactics are a non factor in this discussion because it's not about how to do it. It's about having the potential to do it and almost every deck has a unit that has the potential to kill the jumbo with ease.

I never once said the jumbo was bad. I said every unit has a way to easily kill it and that its only reakky a threat to panthers in numbers but you putting words in people's mouth is probably commonplace.

No one asked you to respond (especially if you aren't going to read what you are responding to).

How about before you respond to this you read my post but this time actually read it.

 

[IronHat]

are u talking about flak 88? cos that cant kill the jumbo unless he is very close. pak 43 is in 17th SS, 21st panzer, 352nd, windhund and 716. and they are useless in windhund.

so 5/9 have pak 43 = almost every division? here is a fact: every allied division have a weapon to kill king tiger. see i am using "facts" like u.

pak 43 will still bounce range shots on jumbo. why are you only considering the vulnerability of a vehicle in a discussion but no other factor? that is not how this game works and is a contrived way of thinking for what purpose exactly?



101st P47 bomber can 1 pass jagdpanzer IV and stugs. if not 1 pass then they are guaranteed to die to any other pass from any other bomber. heavy bombs are the killers of tanks those and typhoon AT for allies. and ofc if rocketing the side more HE damage will apply to the tank since less armour is there to absorb it. i am not saying they are on the level of HS-129 but the capability is there.

5/9 axis dvision have the pak43. The four that doesn't have pak43 are the 12thSS, 91 luft, 3rd FJ, and the lehr.

the 12thSS have panthers.

the Lehr have panthers and King tiger

91 luft and 3 Fj have the HS, which is the center of the thread.

 

[Harold Alexander]

After bomber and AT rocket accuracy nerfs you don't need strong AA anymore, but in the same time with allies you always need strong AA if you don't want to be raped with german AT planes.

 

[IS-2]

Yes I said 88 and when you said it was in 5/9 divisions (referring to the pak 43 specifically) i responded to that directly. Like I said, you aren't reading my posts.

I'm talking about how one unit is able to be killed by any division fairly easy. Tactics are a non factor in this discussion because it's not about how to do it. It's about having the potential to do it and almost every deck has a unit that has the potential to kill the jumbo with ease.

I never once said the jumbo was bad. I said every unit has a way to easily kill it and that its only reakky a threat to panthers in numbers but you putting words in people's mouth is probably commonplace.

No one asked you to respond (especially if you aren't going to read what you are responding to).

How about before you respond to this you read my post but this time actually read it.

saying the jumbo 2nd most armoured tank in the game is easy to kill IS saying its bad because that is its entire strength. " i dident specificaly say its bad XDDD" keep sniffing for them scraps.

your entire point "one unit is able to be killed by any division fairly easily" is already proven wrong by the mere fact that only 5/9 deck have pak 43. 4 of which actually use it, with the other as a noob trap. that is not almost every axis division.

and saying the jumbo is easy to knock out is very disingenuous. tactics ARE a factor because the entire ability for this vaunted pak 43 to engage depends on the tactical situation as it is an AT gun. if you are using a jumbo against the decks that actually would roll out pak 43 (17th SS, 352nd, 21st, 716th) you always advance with recon, infantry screen and vehicle screen because once it is dead your jumbo is literally free to kill everything... that is the entire point of 3AD against anything but the 2 heavy panzer deck. it is so easy to predict and nullify the counter play to the jumbo because of literally the 1 gun that can kill it.

There is 1 jumbo in a trash deck that is killable by pretty much any German deck because of the 88.

stop trying to spread misinformation for ur 3AD crybaby agenda and i wont respond.

the jumbo is not easy to kill, especially relative to the other tanks in its faction. the pak 43 is an easy counter when 3AD player is being a moron. in proper gameplay it is not.

 

[DuroSVK]

Unfortunately after the release AA completely ceased to shoot down this planes, and even after the patch, everything also remains.
And if the Thunderbolts from 101 divisions can destroy one tank at a time, then the Hs-129 can destroy several armored targets at once, and the presence of air defense does not give you any guarantees at all.
And the most interesting thing is that the tank can not be hidden !!??, unfortunately in the game it is not realized that the tank can be simply placed between two houses or behind a forest ridge, and then the plane simply will not receive a corner for attack from the course weapon.
All this practically depreciates the allied tanks in the game and rolls the game over to primitive tactics.
Why drag and torment guns if Hs 129 kills any tank ? ...Do not think about distance and angles, just call Hs 129 (or P-47) and a fighter that in these divisions is generally better than any allies.
Moreover, there are videos of attacking Hs 129 in the network there it is perfectly clear that they are attacking the columns on the march in the open area with very close range. From such a distance they should be vulnerable to anti-aircraft guns and the cases of shooting down these assault aircraft by anti-aircraft guns during the WW2 are known.
I agree that the loss of airspace should not allow you to attack when the attacking units are vulnerable to air assault, but not under your anti-aircraft guns which still need to be suppressed to begin the air assault.

If you hide your tank away from enemy sight the plane wont hit it. Anti tank planes are very expensive, buy at least 1-2 AA pieces to support your tanks. Stressed plane will then wont be able to hit you. Also buy at least one cheap fighter to punish your enemy from bringing this slow vulnerable plane into battlefield. Always post a replay because there is maybe problem with you, not the game. If you let enemy plane destroy more than one tanks in one ride, there is problem with you since you must use combined arms, not stick to only one kind of unit - tanks.

 

[Fussel]

I think Eugen did a good job adjusting the Henschel bs with the slight plane nerf and things like reducing supression damage of 88's. That being said HS129 can still be very deadly and 3 FSJ remains one of the best factions without being blatantly overpowered like before.

 

[ziomax90]

After bomber and AT rocket accuracy nerfs you don't need strong AA anymore, but in the same time with allies you always need strong AA if you don't want to be raped with german AT planes.

stop generalize in a pointless way, i play usually 12 ss panzer and i need some AA to try stopping enemyp planes raping my push with thanks..... you generalize is nonsense