HRE still nonsensical despite fluffy mechanics

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Kh3lben

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...add things to do while at peace and generally provide alternatives to Paint The Map Your Colour 4? Rulers of early modern states certainly did not have boring lives while at peace. The move to centralisation, management of nobles and growing middle classes.....

This is a whole other matter and i dont think that anyone is opposed to it.It's not the OP's complaint though.
 

TheChronoMaster

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I am proud to complain about historical accuracy. It is my passion, far more than actually playing any of the games.

Blobbing needs to be reduced everywhere, not just in the HRE. A general change is necessary.

This is a Grand Strategy Game, not a Colonial Era Politics Simulation.

[T]he role of grand strategy – higher strategy – is to co-ordinate and direct all the resources of a nation, or band of nations, towards the attainment of the political object of the war – the goal defined by fundamental policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_strategy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_strategy_wargame

I dunno what else I can say. The focus is different -- while politics can be represented (and is, to an extent, though abstracted), the end goal is warfare.
 

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This is a Grand Strategy Game, not a Paint a Map Arcade.

I dunno what else I can say.

:)

Edit:
Awww, it doesn't look as fun now after your edit. But seriously. This game has lot of other categories it fits in aswell, diplomacy, historical, simulation (shamelessly stolen tags from steam) etc, not just Grand strategy. Game can be many things at the same time, one category doesn't triumph others. Its a silly arguement at best to try to counter criticism.
 
Last edited:

Zhetone

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So the argument FOR endless internal HRE wars and the HRE consolidating into a few big states is...? What, exactly?
 

TheChronoMaster

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So the argument FOR endless internal HRE wars and the HRE consolidating into a few big states is...? What, exactly?

If there's no internal HRE wars or consolidation, HRE will remain static through the game barring exterior intervention, which is generally infrequent due to the combined power of the HRE states.
 

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If there's no internal HRE wars or consolidation, HRE will remain static through the game barring exterior intervention, which is generally infrequent due to the combined power of the HRE states.

There is something between too much and none at all. Has anyone actually argued for no internal HRE wars?

Do you really like the HRE the way it is, constant war among its members, every year? Day after day, until there is just few blobs left?
 

Squirrelloid

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These threads are somewhat annoying. AI blobbing is good, it provides opponents that are potentially challenges to the player. If the AI doesn't blob, then there's no challenge, and you get people who want stronger rebels to challenge the players because they've argued that you can't make the AI be a challenge.

This leads to the counter-intuitive situation where any difficulty in a *war game* comes not from war, but from rebels.

Gameplay before historicity, and gameplay that creates difficulty during the activity that is the focus of the game.
 

Crater122

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One of the biggest problems with Austria owning Sundgau and then getting the Burgundian inheritance is that they often end up forming a line from Tirol up to the Low Countries. While I'm fine with Austria diplo-vassalizing states, I don't think the emperor should be able to fabricate claims on or declare conquest wars on members of the empire. I haven't used the Imperial liberation CB before, as I find the idea of being emperor tedious, but the emperor should either be forced not to, or have a very strong disincentive for keeping the territory they take with that CB and instead release independent princes.
 

Payens

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I'd like it if the AI for the Emperor would be a bit more unique. As in giving the Emperor a higher priority in increasing Imperial Authority, especially by liberating member nations that got gobbled up by neighbors. Make it so the AI emperor doesn't want to reduce IA by expanding into it. If he expands, he can go outside. If he has nations that he doesn't like (negative opinion) that can release a member state via war, he'll pursue that war. Stuff like that would be really nice.
 

Zhetone

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These threads are somewhat annoying. AI blobbing is good, it provides opponents that are potentially challenges to the player. If the AI doesn't blob, then there's no challenge, and you get people who want stronger rebels to challenge the players because they've argued that you can't make the AI be a challenge.

This leads to the counter-intuitive situation where any difficulty in a *war game* comes not from war, but from rebels.

Gameplay before historicity, and gameplay that creates difficulty during the activity that is the focus of the game.
How is the AI blobbing in the HRE showing that the AI is anything except idiotic? Plus it has nothing to do with me, I'm not fighting them unless I'm emperor, in which case they're pushovers in the first place.
The AI will blob no matter what without player intervention in the HRE, and you'd know that if you read my post instead of whining about it instinctively.
 

Alerias

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Intra-HRE expansion isnt entirely optimal and the AI should probably learn that a bit better.

However this is by far the most realistic HRE we've ever had and not just because of league wars for religion. Its harder than ever to reform the HRE, every reform you get through feels well earned.
 

Zhetone

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Intra-HRE expansion isnt entirely optimal and the AI should probably learn that a bit better.

However this is by far the most realistic HRE we've ever had and not just because of league wars for religion. Its harder than ever to reform the HRE, every reform you get through feels well earned.
It certainly doesn't feel more realistic.
 

Zhetone

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False, I've had the Emperor attack me personally with Liberation.
It maybe happens once in a million years. It always seems to happen to the player. But often Austria will ally with a few states in the HRE and then allow them to just run rampant and conquer everything, too.
 

Big Blue Blob

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These threads are somewhat annoying. AI blobbing is good, it provides opponents that are potentially challenges to the player. If the AI doesn't blob, then there's no challenge, and you get people who want stronger rebels to challenge the players because they've argued that you can't make the AI be a challenge.

This leads to the counter-intuitive situation where any difficulty in a *war game* comes not from war, but from rebels.

Gameplay before historicity, and gameplay that creates difficulty during the activity that is the focus of the game.

This is the main problem with many people on the forum. So EU4 is an ahistorical war game. How many others of those can you think of? Quite a few (the entire Total War series, maybe?). And this one does not even let me fight the battles, it is all down to dice rolls at the strategic level. This game had the chance to be the one, just the one, that put history first and made peace just as important as war. But no. We have another half-arsed war game spitting in the face of history, where players just seek big final bosses in AI blobs to fight, and fans thanking Paradox for making it.

I am not foolish enough to declare a boycott or anything like that, but let me just say I shall be doing other things with my money than buying EU5, or HOI4.
 

Crater122

First Lieutenant
34 Badges
May 28, 2012
299
2
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • March of the Eagles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Magicka
  • Semper Fi
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
This is the main problem with many people on the forum. So EU4 is an ahistorical war game. How many others of those can you think of? Quite a few (the entire Total War series, maybe?). And this one does not even let me fight the battles, it is all down to dice rolls at the strategic level. This game had the chance to be the one, just the one, that put history first and made peace just as important as war. But no. We have another half-arsed war game spitting in the face of history, where players just seek big final bosses in AI blobs to fight, and fans thanking Paradox for making it.

I am not foolish enough to declare a boycott or anything like that, but let me just say I shall be doing other things with my money than buying EU5, or HOI4.

This is what kills me. Prior to EU3, there was a much bigger focus on historicity. But as the series got more popular, somehow the sandbox crowd became the largest and loudest voice, so much so to the point that the devs even just call it a wargame now.
 

Big Blue Blob

Captain
1 Badges
Oct 7, 2014
382
1
  • Crusader Kings II
This is what kills me. Prior to EU3, there was a much bigger focus on historicity. But as the series got more popular, somehow the sandbox crowd became the largest and loudest voice, so much so to the point that the devs even just call it a wargame now.

If it is killing you, you should see a doctor about it. But I am glad to see that some others feel the same way.