HRE reform, next to last (Reduction of Privileges)

[kabash]

I just had one of those "oh, my" moments.

100 years into grand campaign with Austria, I had pretty bad luck with slow rise of imperial authority so in first 50 years I had none of the reforms.

Nevertheless, when first reform passed, others rolled pretty quickly... until the one which makes all HRE states my vassals - Reduction of Privileges reform.

Several states are already my vassals, but unfortunately I have very high infamy - still bellow limit, but still high... So with 100 Imperial Authority I tried this reform and finished as only state in HRE, in war with all others, with sky rocketed infamy and zero legitimacy.

Most confusing thing is that states that are already my vassals refused this reform and declared war on me.

I guess infamy is the problem, but what is your experience with this reform? If I cut my infamy to zero, should I expect different outcome of this reform?

Thanks.

 

[Benandorf]

I had around 8 infamy when I did it, and about 2-3 of them refused, but have only done the reform once, since HRE is too easy, so can't say if infamy's what makes the difference.

 

[luitzen]

It makes absolutely no sense. If a member state votes in favour of the privilegia de non appelando he may still declare war on you.

edit: and in my opinion member states who are already vassals should only be able to vote, not go to war with you when they disagree.

 

[kabash]

It makes absolutely no sense. If a member state votes in favour of the privilegia de non appelando he may still declare war on you.

edit: and in my opinion member states who are already vassals should only be able to vote, not go to war with you when they disagree.

ah, so you are saying that some of the states voted "yes", but since reform is rejected, they all declared war on me?

Thanks for answers, I have autosave, and I will try to lower infamy and try again

 

[luitzen]

ah, so you are saying that some of the states voted "yes", but since reform is rejected, they all declared war on me?

Thanks for answers, I have autosave, and I will try to lower infamy and try again

No, I'm saying that the majority of the member states voted yes, but that they all declared war on you because of your infamy, even those that voted in favour of the reform.

 

[Minarchist]

I just played a Milan-->Italy-->HRE game, and once I got to that point, I played around with it a little bit to figure out what you're asking.

It looks like this bit functions similar to when you're trying to diplo-vassalize another nation. It seems like the size of your economy, the size of your army, your prestige, etc. all affect whether or not states accept the reform and become your vassal or not. But then that raises other questions like why Anhalt declared war on me when I suggested that reform and France and Portugal were fine with it

 

[unmerged(105596)]

It is somehow bugged. I managed to get into several wars with countries that DID accept the reform and became therefore my vassals. So the FoW was lifted from their country and diplomatic mapmode showed them as my vassals (green), but I was still in war with them.

Edit: Infamy was 4.9, legitimacy 100, prestige 80-something, IA 53.

 

[Darkrenown]

No, I'm saying that the majority of the member states voted yes, but that they all declared war on you because of your infamy, even those that voted in favour of the reform.

This. After the reform passes the AI states each have an 85% of accepting and being vassalised, UNLESS you have 30% or more of your BB limit, in which case they have 0% chance of saying yes. Anyone who rejects the reforms leaves the HRE and DoWs you.

 

[unmerged(130632)]

I'm currently playing France, and have been elected emperor.
Can i form the HRE if i manage to pass all reforms ?

 

[Darkrenown]

Yes, and that will be a terrible monster :s

 

[kabash]

This. After the reform passes the AI states each have an 85% of accepting and being vassalised, UNLESS you have 30% or more of your BB limit, in which case they have 0% chance of saying yes. Anyone who rejects the reforms leaves the HRE and DoWs you.

Thanks for detailed explanation, this explains my situation.

Is there any effect from ruler diplomatic stats, or from advisors, or is it fixed 85% and 0% chance (depending on infamy)?

 

[Darkrenown]

It's entirely fixed. Once the vote passes every HRE nation gets an event with the choices I mentioned above, the Emp's BB is the only modifer.

I've just made a mod that changes this though, in my version everyone who voted no will refuse to join if the vote passes. Those that voted for it have a 90% chance of accepting it.

 

[luitzen]

Thanks for detailed explanation, this explains my situation.

Is there any effect from ruler diplomatic stats, or from advisors, or is it fixed 85% and 0% chance (depending on infamy)?

It's 0% as soon as your infamy goes above 30% of your limit:

#... and for member states
country_event = {
	id = 9076
	title = "EVTNAME9076"
	desc = "EVTDESC9076"
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA9076"
		emperor = {
			vassalize = this
		}
		ai_chance = {
			factor = 85
			modifier = {
				factor = 0
				emperor = {
					badboy = 0.3
				}
			}
		}
	}
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB9076"
		any_owned = {
			hre = no
		}
		emperor = {
			war = this
		}
		ai_chance = {
			factor = 15
		}
	}
}

 

[Darkrenown]

I did say that in post 8

 

[kabash]

Thank you all

 

[luitzen]

I did say that in post 8

And I showed why