HRE overpowered - not that I'm complaining in this game

[Sam L]

Playing as Castille, thanks to my son-in-law HRE, half of Iberia is mine and it's only 1138. I called him in to two wars and HRE armies squashed the Muslims.

Question though, there's been two crusades and the Pope has lost both. I don't think HRE joined either. I find that odd. Has anyone else found that? Fatimids are so strong. With a strong Castille and Holy Orders, I should be able to take the next Crusade.

 

[SweArdaia]

Everything is op in this game. First 100 years, muslims kick ass. When they shatter from revolts, france and HRE takes everything that was even bordering a muslim. Then GH and Ilkhanate show up and steamroll northen europe and the holy land, repectively.

 

[Salaktus]

HRE is overpowered in the beginning as the emperor summons his huge armies of mindless lords with a hand's motion. I tried to destroy it from the inside and succeeded somewhat within 30 years as a count/duke in eastern Germany with a lot of bribery, poison and flying knives. Not playing a mean lord; just being devoted It was very uncoordinated once some larger outside forces saw their chance. Heck, I was favourite for the next election once myself.

Then again I'm never a fan of the HRE in Paradox titles and want to get rid of it asap

 

[unmerged(512626)]

HRE is overpowered in the beginning as the emperor summons his huge armies of mindless lords with a hand's motion. I tried to destroy it from the inside and succeeded somewhat within 30 years as a count/duke in eastern Germany with a lot of bribery, poison and flying knives. Not playing a mean lord; just being devoted It was very uncoordinated once some larger outside forces saw their chance. Heck, I was favourite for the next election once myself.

Then again I'm never a fan of the HRE in Paradox titles and want to get rid of it asap

Yeah, the HRE is chaos or at least weak after awhile post 1.07. When it's weak capitalize on it, it rebounds quickly. I find though the AI Emperor has too many liberties and less malus than a human player though. Also, I too saw the HRE skip a lot of holy wars (which as Free Investiture Italy I get penalized for) -- and when a tyrant, inbred, lustful imbecille should have been excommunicated but was not. More than one Emp was in serious debt (that we couldn't pull off) and asked me for money. Next to becoming independent of the HRE my favorite time in the whole game was the last 25 years when all hell broke loose, internally and with Poland and France. Sadly the game ended with a 77% warscore for Bohemian (my AI dynasty) Independence.

P.S. After fighting and wining an early Independence war and rejoining (concerned about other threats) mid game I was given Independence w/o a fight via faction and supporters. Kinda thinking it's underpowered now (or can be) in some respects -- maybe mid-game on.

 

[Hootieleece]

the problem is that the reality HRE Emperor actual power is not well represented in game.Even with Autonomous Vassals CA.Government in all realms is too cenralized,HRE(or any other) can summon large armies.When under that kind of CA law,He should be more like a first among equals and have to fight most of his early offensive wars with just his personal resources.In CK1 there was an event that popped up when a liege called to arms and you could refuse......

Yes I complained about not being able to change succession laws because Vassals wouldn't stop fighting in another thread, but that a least keeps the historically realistic Elective Monarchy in place.

 

[Lord Finnish]

While as Hootieleece said HRE mechanics can't be well implemented in this game, I think HRE should be at least locked in Autonomous Vassals and minimum tax/levy laws.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

While as Hootieleece said HRE mechanics can't be well implemented in this game, I think HRE should be at least locked in Autonomous Vassals and minimum tax/levy laws.

Then there is little reason to rebel. No fun.

 

[Hootieleece]

Since this game goes ahistoric as soon a you unpause.........CA and tax laws shouldn't be locked in place, but much harder to implement.The Faction System and plot Wars already in game make changing succession law to primogeniture almost impossible now.(which is a good thing, i think)

Remember game is a sandbox anything should be possible, but many things far different from IRL history should be HARD to implement.

HRE lasted a thousand years IRL.So it should be present in game but the ability to dismantle it or turn it into an absolute Hereditary monarchy should also be present.

 

[Lord Finnish]

Then there is little reason to rebel. No fun.

Well, how many times did the HRE blow up because of civil wars in the middle ages?

 

[Ruwaard]

the problem is that the reality HRE Emperor actual power is not well represented in game.Even with Autonomous Vassals CA.Government in all realms is too cenralized,HRE(or any other) can summon large armies.When under that kind of CA law,He should be more like a first among equals and have to fight most of his early offensive wars with just his personal resources.In CK1 there was an event that popped up when a liege called to arms and you could refuse......

Yes I complained about not being able to change succession laws because Vassals wouldn't stop fighting in another thread, but that a least keeps the historically realistic Elective Monarchy in place.

I agree that this isn't a HRE specific issue, however the HRE did have an Imperial demesne and a dynastic demesne and this also is true for other kingdoms, but in a hereditary monarchy such a distinction ends up being a bit blurred. Autonomous vassals also correspond well for the early in game situation in France too. Furthermore back in 1066 a disagree that the HRE was predestined to always develop in the same way as it did historically.

While as Hootieleece said HRE mechanics can't be well implemented in this game, I think HRE should be at least locked in Autonomous Vassals and minimum tax/levy laws.

That's why I also oppose any realm to be permanently locked in autonomous vassals, minimum tax/levy laws etc. However it might be an idea to lower these levels for every kind of monarchy, if a different dynasty succeeds to the throne.

 

[Hootieleece]

@Ruwaard

HRE dynastic/imperial desmesne would be in game the lands in that character holds as personal desmesne.I think that even with Autonomous vassals CA the Monarch has too much power.
I also agree that HRE was not predestined to develop the way it did but It should be rather hard to change though.

I always complained about AI Emperor's and Kings raising CA too fast and Changing the succession laws in HRE should be a major decision with difficult but possible conditions to meet.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

Well, how many times did the HRE blow up because of civil wars in the middle ages?

I suppose you could tell me or give me a wiki link. It was a light-hearted comment. Though what I also meant is that this would discourage civil war and thus make it less likely for others to take advantage of it. And meanwhile diluting the use of most factions in HRE to irrelevance.

 

[Ruwaard]

@Ruwaard

HRE dynastic/imperial desmesne would be in game the lands in that character holds as personal desmesne.I think that even with Autonomous vassals CA the Monarch has too much power.
I also agree that HRE was not predestined to develop the way it did but It should be rather hard to change though.

I always complained about AI Emperor's and Kings raising CA too fast and Changing the succession laws in HRE should be a major decision with difficult but possible conditions to meet.

The personal demesne can be the same or a part of the dynastic demesne (Hausgut), however the imperial (and in case of a kingdom royal) demesne (Reichsgut) wouldn't be. Yes, they would be under the control of the current emperor (or king), but they should pass to the next ruler (and thus be tied to that tag) and not necessarily the dynastic heir, sadly that distinction isn't possible in CK2.

I think that we both agree, that raising CA and changing succession laws is too easy in general. I also agree that changing the succession law in the HRE away from elective is major and should be difficult too achieve, however that might even be turned into a more general role. For instance if France, Castille, Poland, England etc. would develop into an elective monarchy and stay that way long enough, something similar should (maybe eventually) apply to them too; since major nobles in any realm wouldn't be inclined to give up such a privilege easily.

Well, how many times did the HRE blow up because of civil wars in the middle ages?

Even though there were civil wars and an interregnum, the HRE itself never ceased to exist.

 

[lordboy54]

Try some mods. CK2+ ups the difficulty quite the bit to a more realistic, at times more frustrating, level.