HRE elections

[Arheilgen]

Playing base game without any DLCs or mods.
Started with Otto of Germany, being now emperor Otto the Great of the HRE.

First strange thing: The electoral college is NOT as described in the Wiki.
Cologne, Mainz and Trier are there, but not Franconia (being a really powerful duchy), not Brandenburg (weak duchy), of course not Bohemia (still independent) and NOT Saxonia, which means I don't get a vote.
Instead the HRE got a bunch of 6 bishops and the duke of lower loraine. Which is awful as my dynasty will never control those bishops.

Concerning my age succession will come soon. I've got two eligible sons who for years competed for leading the electoral votes - I didn't really care who of the two will get through.

But now the electors have decided to support a minor duke.
Which is strange as most of the electors like me 100%, but don't follow my suggestion. Bribes will not help as they already are on 100%.
What can I do?

If the minor duke will be elected emperor: Who of my sons will get my personal heritage?
I had ultimogenitur before founding the HRE. My two elder sons are dukes, the youngest son with ultimogenitur should get Saxony - right?

Will I then just wait for the new emperor to die or is it possible to depose him?

 

[jonjowett]

Playing base game without any DLCs or mods.
Started with Otto of Germany, being now emperor Otto the Great of the HRE.

First strange thing: The electoral college is NOT as described in the Wiki.
Cologne, Mainz and Trier are there, but not Franconia (being a really powerful duchy), not Brandenburg (weak duchy), of course not Bohemia (still independent) and NOT Saxonia, which means I don't get a vote.
Instead the HRE got a bunch of 6 bishops and the duke of lower loraine. Which is awful as my dynasty will never control those bishops.

Concerning my age succession will come soon. I've got two eligible sons who for years competed for leading the electoral votes - I didn't really care who of the two will get through.

But now the electors have decided to support a minor duke.
Which is strange as most of the electors like me 100%, but don't follow my suggestion. Bribes will not help as they already are on 100%.
What can I do?

If the minor duke will be elected emperor: Who of my sons will get my personal heritage?
I had ultimogenitur before founding the HRE. My two elder sons are dukes, the youngest son with ultimogenitur should get Saxony - right?

Will I then just wait for the new emperor to die or is it possible to depose him?

I don't know why the electoral college didn't work out the way you hoped.

If you want to find out why the electors are voting the way they are, there is a button in the "laws" screen (underneath the button where you nominate your successor). Each elector will have a score for your candidate and a score for the candidate that they are voting for. If you hover over these scores then the tooltip will explain how the socre is calculated.

If you want to force the succession and you have Conclave then you can buy favors from 3 electors (costing at least ~200 gold each). Then, for each of these 3 electors, you can right-click on their portrait and "call in succession support". Those 3 electors will now be forced to follow your vote for the next 10 years. 3 elector votes + 1 vote from you as emperor = 4 votes, out of a maximum of 8. The emperor's vote is the tie-breaker, so this is enough to guarantee a win. (You can do this with fewer than 3 electors, if the electors are all supporting different candidates. When picking electors for favors, avoid old or unhealthy people who might not survive 10 years.)

What happens if you lose the election is really unpredictable. In the best case, you only lose the empire title and everything else goes to your dynastic heir. In the worst case, you might lose the empire capital county - or even the capital duchy. (I think this worst case will only happen if the chosen successor was unlanded... but, as I said, it's unpredictable.) FYI - If you personally own the traditional capital of the empire (Julich?) after succession then the new emperor will probably try to revoke it from you.

 

[Arheilgen]

If you hover over these scores then the tooltip will explain how the socre is calculated.

Thank you, that was very helpful.

I did see the score, but couldn't explain them (and hovering over some information is so often useful in CK2, I should have tried).

Fact is: Unlike most other decisions they don't give anything about their opinion of me.
My nomination just means one single vote, nothing more I can do.

The rest is mostly depending on the traits of the candidates, if they are fitting the prefences of the electors. And as they are mostly bishops, they like a more holy behavior then my sons could offer ...
As I have no option to change the abilities of my sons I will try to nominate bishops who are a bit more tolerant - assuming they will not request traits they do not have themselves.

What it is still a mystery is why the composition of the electoral college is not following the rules in the wiki.
I should have a vote being duke of Saxony and big duchies like Franconia, Swabia or Bavaria should have a vote instead of some more puny bishops.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

..they don't give anything about their opinion of me

Because it doesn't matter.

What it is still a mystery is why the composition of the electoral college is not following the rules in the wiki.

As it neither historically nor in game had always been like that.
It also simply depends on the question if these duchies exist at the time in the first place.
Also mentioned on the Wiki. The traditional titles are prioritised, but don't have to become the electors.
Selection of the electors is semi-random when there are none yet.
Post 1066 it's more likely to consist of the standard duchies, but not earlier, as you don't start as an emperor an thus not the princely elective succession in place. Besides, the Wiki is not always right. It's edited by humans and humans are faulty.

Electors also have to be de jure titles of the empire. Depending how your game went, maybe the other titles are not de jure.
If you created other dejure HRE duchies first, then these are likely the electors instead.
I have only created the HRE once or twice since patch 3.2 outside the Charlemagne bookmark.

I should have a vote being duke of Saxony

No. Has to be vassals, as it's Princely Elective. You already have a vote as emperor.


As was mentioned before by jonjowett above, make use of favours, assuming you have the Conclave DLC...
or go the traditional CK2 player route and kill/revoke competitors until your choice gets elected.

In files : common/succession_voting/01_succession_voting_specials.txt
See hre_feudal_elective = and elector_selection =

 

[Arheilgen]

Because it doesn't matter.

OK. But that is quite arbitrary. Opinion plays such a major role in CK2 and decisions are mostly based on them - it is strange that in this case opinion doesn't matter at all.

Selection of the electors is semi-random when there are none yet.

That's ok, can't be otherwise if the "right" duchies are not available.
But the selection criteria are a bit strange (and ahistorical). There should be three electors from the clergy and four dukes (or kings). And of course they should be top-tier.
In my case there are five bishops (though more important dukes were available) and two of the bishops are sub-vassals of dukes.

Has to be vassals, as it's Princely Elective. You already have a vote as emperor.

OK. That really confused me as it is so ahistorical.
The emperor had no vote (being dead at the time of election). But his heir had the electoral votes of the duchies the emperor held personally (in this case Saxony).

go the traditional CK2 player route and kill/revoke competitors until your choice gets elected.

Thats what I will do. I will get Conclave later, but not in the running game.

Thanks a lot for your help.
I really feel I should try modding a build a mod which models HRE-elections (and generally germanic king-elections) properly.