HRE 7th Reform - Bohemian PU turned into a vassal, all other vassals have 100% liberty desire

[HydroAC]

On 1583 I got the 7th HRE Reform "Revoke Privilagia", turning the HRE princes into my loyal slaves.

What I didn't realize is that it also turned my Bohemian PU into a HRE vassal. Now I can't inherit them, which was a decent chance since my reputation is 9 or more.

It also caused my other vassals (Novgorod, Norway, Picardy, an Portugal) to have 100% liberty desire. This is almost certainly due to the weight of the development of the HRE vassals.

So this means I will have to undo this, since having 4 vassals kind of useless since they will have 100% liberty desire and that I can't integrate until I enact the 8th Reform. It also severely limits my ability to create new vassals, optimizing expansion with vassal cores.

I suppose I could enact the 8th reform, forming the Holy Roman Empire. I would get to be an Empire, but lose the HRE abilities. I'll have to look into this.

Or am I missing a mechanic?

 

[HydroAC]

Oh, and I also got so big that I have no valid rivals - Russia and the Ottos got scuppered.

So I'm definitely undoing the 7th Reform.

 

[illathid]

On 1583 I got the 7th HRE Reform "Revoke Privilagia", turning the HRE princes into my loyal slaves.

What I didn't realize is that it also turned my Bohemian PU into a HRE vassal. Now I can't inherit them, which was a decent chance since my reputation is 9 or more.

It also caused my other vassals (Novgorod, Norway, Picardy, an Portugal) to have 100% liberty desire. This is almost certainly due to the weight of the development of the HRE vassals.

So this means I will have to undo this, since having 4 vassals kind of useless since they will have 100% liberty desire and that I can't integrate until I enact the 8th Reform. It also severely limits my ability to create new vassals, optimizing expansion with vassal cores.

I suppose I could enact the 8th reform, forming the Holy Roman Empire. I would get to be an Empire, but lose the HRE abilities. I'll have to look into this.

Or am I missing a mechanic?

Yeah, the PU to vassal change has been there for a while. It's definitely annoying.

 

[Horn and Ivory]

This is how it's worked for at least a year or so. Generally you have to annex all non-HRE vassals before revoking (non-HRE PUs are still fine). Not being able to inherit HRE PUs is usually not that much of a problem once you've revoked, though - you'll soon be able to conquer beyond your state limit in any case.

 

[HydroAC]

So do vassals I create AFTER the 7th Reform have the same issue - 100% liberty desire from all the HRE princes?

Likewise, if I end up with a colonial empire, will this also weigh against my colony's liberty desire?

If so then I have a strong incentive to enact of the 8th Reform and I can say goodbye to the vassal swarm.

I'll create a spreadsheet to see what the relative benefits of 7th Reform vs being a normal empire with the 9th Reform,.

 

[Horn and Ivory]

So do vassals I create AFTER the 7th Reform have the same issue - 100% liberty desire from all the HRE princes?

Likewise, if I end up with a colonial empire, will this also weigh against my colony's liberty desire?

If so then I have a strong incentive to enact of the 8th Reform and I can say goodbye to the vassal swarm.

I'll create a spreadsheet to see what the relative benefits of 7th Reform vs being a normal empire with the 9th Reform,.

Yes, non-HRE vassals will all have crazy-high liberty desire (unless and until you get insanely big). You need to either feed your HRE vassals, or contrive to add any other vassals to the HRE. Or keep liberty desire down with development and prestige, at great expense.

Colonial nations only check for other colonial nations, so you're okay there.

Honestly if you're inventive about feeding your HRE vassals you'll be able to get way more out of them than out of any normal set of vassals.

 

[bly08]

If the vassals do not have an HRE capital then yes, their strength vs. overlord LD won't be calculated individually. If their capital is in the HRE then they'll become an HRE vassal.

CNs are not affected. At this point it's better to release non HRE vassals and force their capitals into HRE.

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

Oh, and I also got so big that I have no valid rivals - Russia and the Ottos got scuppered.

So I'm definitely undoing the 7th Reform.

The amount of power you've just picked up makes Power Projection irrelevant. You can easily afford to pick up better advisors to offset the +1 from 50 PP.

 

[Ironside121]

Just complete the 8th reform ASAP and it'll solve the issue- but I generally avoid the Vassal swarm if I have non-HRE vassals, at least for a bit. They won't ever actually revolt though- you just can't integrate them.

 

[HydroAC]

Thanks for the tips.

So it seems that I'll either need to pass Reform #8 and form the Holy Roman Empire OR integrate all of my non-HRE vassals before I pass Reform #7. Catch and release after adding their capital to the HRE seems like a lot of trouble. Once I finish Admin idea I'll get the policy Vassal Integration Act, so I'll be able to integrate much cheaper.

Good to know on CNs. That would be a total pain, and shut out a HRE player from colonization.

Feeding my HRE vassals makes sense near Europe, but I'm running out of land to give them. France is almost gone, I just finished eating Denmark, Norway has been integrated, and Poland/Lith and Castile/Arg are my allies (and likely PU targets). That leaves Brittany, England and Sweden - all targets between lunching on Russia, Ottos, and Mamluks.

Also, it occurs to me that if I got with the HRE I'll need a good number of states to make all those high-dev princely provinces pay for themselves. As an Empire I get 10, but I'll need to go get higher Admin tech and finish Admin ideas. Also, letting the princes invest their MPs in their land for a while seems like a good idea. Let all those petty kings and princes work for me. So maybe put off forming the HRE until 1650 or so.

HRE Emperor vs the HRE looks like a trade off. As the HRE I get Empire abilities (+10 States, +1 diplomat, +1 leader, +5 absolutism) vs HRE Emperor (+5% const/dev, +1 diplomat, 10% core, +10% tax, 10% spy, +1 advisor, +1 diplo rep, etc). With the exception of the coring cost, I can live with not being HRE Emperor and forming the Holy Roman Empire. There is an advantage with being and Empire when the Age of Absolutism starts. In my game it is 1585, so it is 25 years away.

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

Just nom nom nom the world.

 

[Zohtun]

Just nom nom nom the world.

HOLY

Roman Empire...

 

[mobius42]

Just nom nom nom the world.

So were these princes added prior to revoking? I have already revoked in my current game and can't add any more land as HRE past the Eurasia border to release princes like Syria that I see in your screenshot. I would typically core, convert, add to HRE, and release prince. Maybe I am doing this wrong or missing something?

Also, for some reason I was unable to release Karman and Ramazan even though they had cores with Turkish culture.

 

[--M--]

As another alternative, you could also transform your HRE-external vassals into PU:
Place a dude of your dynasty on their throne, release, marry and claim throne -- of course you need a bit of luck that they won't get a good heir in those two months, and you will suffer the stab hit for breaking the truce and having a marriage.
This works even with 100% liberty desire, but is a bit RNG dependant.

 

[HydroAC]

Good idea, especially for a larger vassal where it would be worth the hits.

In that Spanish game I had 2 larger vassals that I ended up cutting loose and then feeding to my HRE minions. It was kind of was a waste to build of Novgorod only to consume them again...