How would a fanatic authoritarian, xenophile playthrough work?

[St. Just]

Well, what does Fanatic Authoritarianism mean? At least IMO, it's a functioning totalitarian state-every aspect of society and life evaluated from the viewpoint of the governing authority, every doctrine and policy deriving it's authority from on high. Think the theological underpinning of the ancien regime, or the more metaphysical bits of High Stalinism-legitimacy and authority descend from the throne to the people, not the other way around. So, xenophile authoritarianism?

-A truly Universal Monarchy, destined by the will of the gods and the might of the armada to unite all the universe. Those aliens who bow and kiss the ring and spun into the ever more complex web of title and lineage, granted honors and access to offices to govern the empire for their liege. Those that don't have earned a traitor's death.

-A truly revolutionary regime-the kind that considers making Esperanto the new language of government and forcing everyone to keep time in metric 'a good start'. The ruling class considers it their moral duty to impose Utopia at the point of a bayonet-and what callousness would it be to assume that foreigners and aliens are not equally deserving?

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

I meant a rigid authority system, like a certain government type. For instance I prefer the Despotic Empire starting government type but I don't like slavery because slave factions are really annoying. I loved it when they changed the Despotic Empire's bonus from slavery bonuses to border bonuses, but that'll all change soon anyway.

Well my first suggestion would be 'learn how to handle slave factions.' Caste system has been designed specifically to make playing as an authoritarian slave empire easier, it cuts down on the micromanagement and even makes it brainlessly easy for sector AI to know who should be enslaved and who shouldn't. Whether you justify it as land serfs, slavery, a planned economy that sentences the unlucky to long hours at thankless jobs for barely enough money to survive, or just a chilling indifference to the value of life that permits forms of wage slavery, they clearly intend for authoritarians to be the guys who enslave their own people.

However if that's no good, your society is an abstraction that you yourself create via ethos choices, a succession method, civic choices and the bio page. Right now we know the ethos choices the best, civics are still largely a mystery and your bio page is blank. Come next expansion you may discover civics exist that allow you the feel of a rigid authoritarian system while picking some combination of spiritual, xenophobic, materialist, xenophilic, militant, or pacifistic.

 

[The Founder]

I have been thinking up new empires for my next playthrough when Utopia comes out, I'm not sure how you could roleplay fanatic authoritarian/xenophiles... You LOVE making aliens slaves? I wonder how all the modifiers would work in that setup.
Any more odd combinations people can think of?? Maybe chuck some odd trait combinations in too.

As AI personality, Authoritarian/Xenophiles would fall into "Hegemonic Imperalist" Territory. Wich is one reason I played one myself in 1.4.1 (Collectivist/Fanatic Xenophile and Charismatic). Another reason is that I wanted to hit "Patroizing" State with the Xenophile FE permanently, wich worked just about out.
Authoritarian in 1.5 is about having few Slaves that will not rebel/be difficult to supress.

Logic:
Xenophobia is unacceptable. Individualism will undoubtedly breed Xenophobia. It always did in [Species] past. A firm hand is needed, to guide every species into happy coexistence under a single banner. All already integrated species will have to carry thier fair share of the burden (Caste System) while pursuing that goal.

My 1.4 idea was to use the Ministery of Benelvolence, Frontier Comissars and Mistery of Culture to convert everyone to Fanatic Xenophile. So I could then resettle single pops to get massive happiness boosts. I never actually did, to much micro.
One of hte biggest issues was with Liberation Warfare: As they were Authoritarian, none of the Liberated empires would enable Free Migration. So you actually have to conquer oher empires. That limits the Federation Options.

 

[GC13]

I really do agree that Authoritarian shouldn't have a bonus that requires slavery to use, just like Materialist shouldn't require use of robots to get maximum benefit from the ethos. Those would make great Civics locked to their respective ethics though. For Authoritarian I'd rather see them get Spiritualist's unrest reduction and give Spiritualist a bonus to edicts instead. For Materialist, you could give them Science Directorate's research choices or maybe something related to their buildings (cost, upkeep—even construction time is useful if you have free migration enabled). Materialist is hard if you don't want to make them just "the ethic you pick if you want to improve your research". Though at least research is something everyone does.

I'm also concerned about Egalitarian, since its migration attraction doesn't seem to play well with xenophobe. Something like leader skill or leader experience gain would benefit all play styles.

 

[Drakonn]

Come Utopia the only means that Fanatic Authoritarians will have to enslave Xenos will be via the Caste System.

Where was it said or indicated that Chattel slavery or the other options were locked out for Authoritarian?

I really do agree that Authoritarian shouldn't have a bonus that requires slavery to use, just like Materialist shouldn't require use of robots to get maximum benefit from the ethos. Those would make great Civics locked to their respective ethics though. For Authoritarian I'd rather see them get Spiritualist's unrest reduction and give Spiritualist a bonus to edicts instead. For Materialist, you could give them Science Directorate's research choices or maybe something related to their buildings (cost, upkeep—even construction time is useful if you have free migration enabled). Materialist is hard if you don't want to make them just "the ethic you pick if you want to improve your research". Though at least research is something everyone does.

I'm also concerned about Egalitarian, since its migration attraction doesn't seem to play well with xenophobe. Something like leader skill or leader experience gain would benefit all play styles.

I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand I think it's going towards Wiz's quote of making things more distinct for each way of play. On the other, why change Despotic Empire to no longer have Slave bonuses but then add Slave Unrest reduction to Authoritarian. Especailly when those two seems to go more hand in hand with each other. Surely Authoritarian does not need rely on slaves just like Despotic Empires do not need it. Granted I know that was a change long before 1.5 but the point remains. Perhaps if it was just Unrest reduction across the board? (though then maybe that'll make it too much a default pick for managing Faction or POP unhappiness)

I had a thought but I think it came out jumbled and not very well presented so your pardon if the above is confusing. I think my main point is why untie Despotic Empire from Slaves but then go around and tie Authoritarian to them? Surely this just makes it a more default pick for Slavery like collectivist was...and nvm I'm confusing myself now I think. (not all that unusual I know but anyways)

 

[Riftwalker]

I have been thinking up new empires for my next playthrough when Utopia comes out, I'm not sure how you could roleplay fanatic authoritarian/xenophiles... You LOVE making aliens slaves? I wonder how all the modifiers would work in that setup.
Any more odd combinations people can think of?? Maybe chuck some odd trait combinations in too.

Think of it as a Strong State with a Serf Class, their nobles/elites have nothing against aliens and in fact get along with them quite well, they simply believe that the upper class needs to be strong and that the caste system needs to be controlled, etc.

 

[GC13]

Where was it said or indicated that Chattel slavery or the other options were locked out for Authoritarian?

Caste system is a level of rights that says that some Pops are enslaved and others aren't; chattel slavery is a type of slavery that gives bonuses to food and mineral production and penalties to energy and science (and certainly unity as well) production. The big question mark hanging over caste system is whether a species with a caste system and domestic servitude will still have members of that species enslaved if they are on a mine tile, or if it will be smart enough to only enslave the ones on a tile they get a bonus to.

 

[Sibericus]

Where was it said or indicated that Chattel slavery or the other options were locked out for Authoritarian?

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-57-species-rights.995302/

Species Rights are separate from Slavery Types

Caste System is species rights. Any member of the species may be either enslaved or free. The different slavery types can be selected seperately.

Chattel Slavery is slavery type. All slaves of the chosen species get bonuses to food and minerals.

You can have chattel slaves under your caste system.

 

[Talanic]

All of this discussion of what Authoritarian really means, and I'm just thinking that one answer to the OP's original question would be "I love all of you guys! I'm putting you in a zoo and keeping you there forever!"

 

[Patze]

If they're pacifist they can't really be violently opposed to anything, my point is that not everyone will want to be in that state so ultimately it would require the use of force to keep them in it.

For example, you want to leave said authoritarian state or you no longer want to be a peasant it requires the state to use force to keep you in that position which is opposed to pacifism.

If we follow your train of thought all empires in stellaris which follow pacifism should be disallowed to own military ships and stations and should surrender as soon as they are attacked .

 

[forfor]

The best example of an authoritarian xenophile state would probably be a culture/government which felt it knew better than the alien races about how they should be managed, or one like the Roman Empire where they conquered brutally, but then integrated their conquests rather than treating them as subordinate

 

[smjjames]

The best example of an authoritarian xenophile state would probably be a culture/government which felt it knew better than the alien races about how they should be managed, or one like the Roman Empire where they conquered brutally, but then integrated their conquests rather than treating them as subordinate

I REALLY wouldn't call the Romans xenophile, yes they integrated a lot of cultures, but they always subjugated other cultures as it was either 'become Roman or perish'.

Anyways, a moderator warned earlier about going off on a tangent about historical empires, so, lets get off that tangent.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Where was it said or indicated that Chattel slavery or the other options were locked out for Authoritarian?

*double checks*

You're right, I most likely stand corrected. It seems only explicitly stated that being Xenophobic unlocks purge policies, but not slavery policies.

I guess I reached my conclusion, based on the description of Caste System.

Caste System: Species with a caste system have a mix of full citizenship and slavery, with pops working in the farms and mines being enslaved and the rest being free to enjoy the fruits of the serfs' labor.

This lines up perfectly with chattel slavery, doesn't cause problems with Battle Thralls, and would be contraindicated by Domestic Servitude and Livestock choices, both of which create penalties to mineral production. In addition, Caste System is available as a free addition to the game, along with chattel slavery and extermination. I concluded that Caste System had a set effect, and did not open up or interact with the Slavery policy. Which I may in fact be wrong about. Thank you.

Where I'm almost definitely wrong is taking that and leaping to believing that Authoritarian ONLY has access to Caste system. So my bad, thanks.

I REALLY wouldn't call the Romans xenophile, yes they integrated a lot of cultures, but they always subjugated other cultures as it was either 'become Roman or perish'.

Anyways, a moderator warned earlier about going off on a tangent about historical empires, so, lets get off that tangent.

Just keep Rome on topic. Like, they did let them become Roman, they integrated them and gave them full rights. So definitely not Xenophobic, like the Indo-Iranian tribes who called themselves Aryans, who set up a complex, rigid caste system driven by racial divisions.

On the other hand, they didn't exactly embrace their cultural differences or gain any measure of happiness when exposed to people different from them, so I actually agree I wouldn't call the Roman empire Xenophillic in Stellaris' standards either.

I'd make Republican Rome as Fanatic Militaristic Materialists, then I'd transition them to Imperial Rome by embracing Authoritarians and switching government from some manner of Oligarchy to a Militaristic Empire.

 

[forfor]

Honestly by the standards of the time, Rome was pretty xenophilic. It wasn't just integration, they often engaged in cultural appropriation. Most other countries at the time were racist xenophobic zealots by comparison. My point was that they were quite happy to let those people be a full part of roman society, including them in government, and often allowing them some elements of self-determination.

 

[Radically Right Wing]

I have been thinking up new empires for my next playthrough when Utopia comes out, I'm not sure how you could roleplay fanatic authoritarian/xenophiles... You LOVE making aliens slaves? I wonder how all the modifiers would work in that setup.
Any more odd combinations people can think of?? Maybe chuck some odd trait combinations in too.

Fanatic Authoritarian Xenophiles..... Communist?

Fanatic Authoritarian- check.
And Xenophile in Stellaris usually correlates to diplomacy, federations, and alliances. Communism spread by infecting the culture of another country and trying to start a rebellion. So communism spread diplomatically across many regions and nations. I would say -check.

So I would go for a hardcore communist roleplay with Fanatic Authoritarian Xenophile.

 

[Drakonn]

Caste system is a level of rights that says that some Pops are enslaved and others aren't; chattel slavery is a type of slavery that gives bonuses to food and mineral production and penalties to energy and science (and certainly unity as well) production. The big question mark hanging over caste system is whether a species with a caste system and domestic servitude will still have members of that species enslaved if they are on a mine tile, or if it will be smart enough to only enslave the ones on a tile they get a bonus to.

Just realized from the Dev Diary that it might be possible to combine Caste with Domestic Servitude or the other "Slavery" types since Caste is under Citizenship not Slavery. Hope so at least.

 

[Fourthspartan56]

Just realized from the Dev Diary that it might be possible to combine Caste with Domestic Servitude or the other "Slavery" types since Caste is under Citizenship not Slavery. Hope so at least.

It is, caste system is under species rights while domestic servitude is under slavery rights. So there absolutely shouldn't be anything stopping you from going caste system+domestic servitude.

 

[Shatterfury]

It is, caste system is under species rights while domestic servitude is under slavery rights. So there absolutely shouldn't be anything stopping you from going caste system+domestic servitude.

So caste system doesn`t cause so much diplomatic problems since it isn`t listed as slavery ?
Awesome !

 

[Fourthspartan56]

So caste system doesn`t cause so much diplomatic problems since it isn`t listed as slavery ?
Awesome !

Oh no it's still slavery, you just choose the type of slavery such as chattel slavery or domestic servitude. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[Shatterfury]

Oh no it's still slavery, you just choose the type of slavery such as chattel slavery or domestic servitude. Sorry if I was unclear.

So under caste system you can have chattel OR domestic ?
Do you know if there is any diplomatic penalties for using caste system ?

My bad, I jumped into the discussion.