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Jun 6, 2001
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war exhaustion

keep in mind that the thirty years war was a lot more complicated than the name suggests. There were 2 or 3 peace agreements in the middle of it that lasted for about a month, partially because almost all the armies involved were mercenary armies who often had more actual power than the states that employed them. and a place like Autria, despite having been a combatant in all the stages of the war, wouldn't have gone through "war exhaustion" like Sweden because only very few Austrian troops were used, (they were mostly Bavarian, and then mercenary) and almost all the money to finance them came from Spain. Also keep in mind that not every country was involved in the war for the whole time. The last 8-10 years were basically a war between France and the Habsburgs fought in Germany.

As far as that would apply to EU, I think the way war exhaustion is computed should be changed. I think it should be affected by the following:
- War exhaustion varies from province to province. The idea of an entire nation could experience war exhaustion didn't really appear until central governments could mobilize the whole nation's manpower at one time. Mostly troops were recruited close to where they were needed.
- goes up when troops raised from province (like 1 point when troops raised equals maximum manpower for that province)
- goes up if province gets looted/seiged (like 2 point for being looted plus 1 point for every 6 months it is seiged)
- goes up if war taxes collected (say 2 points in each province)

I think these would make war exhaustion more realistic in the sense that war exhaustion would be caused by what historically caused war exhaustion. Wars didn't really affect populations unless they were recruited for military service, taxed to pay for the war, or armies came through raping and pillaging. If none of these happened to a province, the fact that a war was going on wouldn't affect it very much.
 

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Re: war exhaustion

Originally posted by pavlovs_dog
keep in mind that the thirty years war was a lot more complicated than the name suggests. There were 2 or 3 peace agreements in the middle of it that lasted for about a month, partially because almost all the armies involved were mercenary armies who often had more actual power

you bring up a good point... those wars included temporary "truces" in between all the battles.

Wouldn't it be nice if warring nations could sign temporary truces in EU? (and at the expiration of the truce, war resumes again) :D
 
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Originally posted by gustav2adolf
This just illustrates another point.. it's impossible to wage war for more then 10 years in EU as the war-exhastion is far too great.

It's entirely possible - I've seen it done, a great many times, and I've had to do it myself on several occasions.
 
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Originally posted by Suleyman

Yes correct. Fast war exhaustion is a big reason why long wars of 30 years or 100 years is simply not likely in this game.


I've seen dozens of them ... even fought a few.


The lesson here is that long drawn-out alliance wars absolutely REQUIRE strong cooperation between allied nations. Otherwise, the war effort (and the alliance itself) will simply crumble. The fact of the matter is, the AI nations just are not smart enough to understand this.

Neither were most leaders during the time period. Alliances routinely *did* crumble, because of people just grabbing what was immediately available without thinking of long term gains. Strong co-operation between allied nations is a joke, during the EU period.
 

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Re: war exhaustion

Originally posted by pavlovs_dog
.......and almost all the money to finance them came from Spain.

That is one of the most enormous overexaggerations I've ever seen-the Peace took so long to implement because of the massive pay arrears of all combatant armies. For most of the war, all combatants were basically operating on credit.


As Heyesey said-thirty/forty year or even longer wars happen with sometimes depressing regularity in EU-I'm frankly surprised that Suleyman etc. haven't had this experience.
 

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Originally posted by gustav2adolf
This just illustrates another point.. it's impossible to wage war for more then 10 years in EU as the war-exhastion is far too great. Which simply means that there can't be any 30-years war either... Why? well... because we'd probably have a revolt risk of about 30% in each province... :)

Didn't the 100 years war really occur more like a series of shorter wars? Even in Englands heyday they would typically send in an army to romp around France for a bit until they lost the will/ran out of money and call it off for another generation to continue.

I think it wasn't until the Black Prince that England had a semi-constant army living off of French lands/plunder, and even that army eventually returned to English territory.

One thing I very much like in EU is that it is difficult to fight longer wars. If life was a game there would probably be no peace. Why would you ever give your enemy quarter? If you have them on the ropes, you would go for the kill and probably wouldn't stop until something forced you to - at which point they would probably have you on the ropes. Why leave an enemy with the potential to rise another day?

Personally I think war exhaustion should be even MORE severe. Historically there just wasn't the will to sacrifice lives and money that there is to sacrifice bits in a computer.
 

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Perhaps war exhaustion should be linked with tech level...and govt. development (infastructure)...as time goes on nations become more tolerant?
 

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May 2, 2001
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Originally posted by Blade!
Perhaps war exhaustion should be linked with tech level...and govt. development (infastructure)...as time goes on nations become more tolerant?

Trouble with that is that wars typically became shorter as time/technology moved along.