How to win as Germany

[unmerged(37741)]

I'm new to HoI, but not to wargaming. Just how do you win as Germany?
I've tried early war, late war but nothing works. The biggest problem seems to be that I am always vastly outnumbered by either Russia or France/Britain.
Any ideas?

 

[unmerged(17617)]

I'm new to HoI, but not to wargaming. Just how do you win as Germany?
I've tried early war, late war but nothing works. The biggest problem seems to be that I am always vastly outnumbered by either Russia or France/Britain.
Any ideas?

As a new player to HOI (and wellcome to the forums), you're probably best of if you wait for the historical events until september 1939. You get a lot of techs and provinces for free through them and they will not fire when you're at war. Use the first years to research like mad, especially gold, industrial, computertechs and techs that are prerequisites for new models. Forget about land and air doctrines because these are the ones you get for free. Start building in 1938 and aim for 100+ inf, 10+ armour, mot(with engineers) and mountaineers each. Poland and the campaign in the west should be doable with these numbers. If it's just the combat you're having trouble with, read this thread very carefully
Leadereffects (land, sea, air).

 

[Truchses]

Look what Germany has: mostly infantry. With techs and land doctrines you can make your divisions really strong. Historically each german army faced about 3 soviet armies and could still advance, at least in the first year, before Stalin improved his units. Land doctrines are also very necessary to boost your army. But you can decide to wait for the techs that you get for free. For me the free techs often come too late. Most times I am eager to boost my infantry as soon as possible, to be ready when the Allies attack.

 

[unmerged(1047)]

Look also at speed. Speed is your friend while attacking - that's the whole theory of blitzkreig. In the Poland campaign and in the West, use armored and mech forces - motorized if you have to, although they are not as effective - as your attack armies and infantry only to occupy and follow up.

Blitzkreig breaks down in the East, though, because the Soviets throw such overwhelming force at you that you can't just fight at even odds and keep them off balance. That's when you need the infantry.

As Germany, you can get speed and org boosting ministers - either is suitable while at war, though I personally use the artillery booster during 1937-mid-1939 in order to speed up research and construction. (Motorized artillery is pretty cool.)

Using this strategy, I find it unnecessary to build any ground troops at all prior to 1938, and those mostly just a few infantry divisions (literally a few... after Ancschluss, to round out my stacks to 4 or 5 divisions each, after seperating out all the "specialist" divisions). I use the first two years for heavy research, maybe some air construction. (A couple stacks of divebombers or tac bombers will soften up the enemy nicely.)

After Anschluss, then I start churning out military units, primarily (since I usually get the tech I want around then) IMT-70 panzer divisions. These work very well as attack forces grouped in 3's and 4's. By the time I invade France, I generally have 4-5 such stacks, backed up by several 3 or 4 division groups of motor or mech forces, leaving my infantry on the Rhine to guard while I go around the Maginot fortresses (through Luxembourg and/or Belgium, depending on the location of the French garrisons, and trying to cut off and destroy allied units against the coast like the Germans should have done at Dunkirk in real life.)

 

[unmerged(7734)]

To defeat Russia you must eliminate their armies on the border (and at the border) by encircling them and you need armor/mech/motorized on the flanks of the attack to accomplish this. Infantry lacks the speed to get to the provinces in the rear.

Every other country you can beat by hammering their armies backwards and use national borders or the sea as the backside of the encirclement. But Russia is way too big for that to work, not to mention that merely pushing them back to Moscow/Leningrad/Stalingrad will create all but impregnable positions because of the urban defense factor of these cities. Then east of that line, there are so many large provinces with low infrastructure that it is almost impossible for ground troops to achieve encirclement. Paratroopers are required for encirclement in that area, but the transports are so expensive that I have never been able to afford them prior to the Bitter Peace event anyway.

 

[unmerged(29350)]

my contribution would be as follows:-

1) Wait for Munich Treaty before any war - you get lots of free techs here and similarly with the Spanish Civil war (this is actually an alteration to prevent germany going berzerk and conquering the globe before '38!)
2) Hit Russia Early. Your main chalenge will be pulling Russias Teeth before you start to get serious American involvement. I usually start moving in Sept 39 but have moved this to immediately after Munich agreement. I now do Poland, Followed by Belgium then France(avoiding Maginot and accepting Vichy when offered), (a few other minors can also be done here including Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Hungary etc but this is purely optional and based on time available). Aim to be ready to plough into Russia by Early 1940 with plenty (15 or more is good) of 70mm tanks (or better - improved are very good but anything better is a bonus). As said above, do not try to simply gain territory from Russia - you simply make things very difficult later and you cost yourself huge amounts of manpower against large soviet forces - do not be afraid to pull back if you are in a poor ratio battle (the soviets get LOTS more men than you do and you cannot affors a battle of attrition). Cut off Soviet divisions with small groups of tanks moving as fast as you dare to encircle them with troops running as fast as possible in behind, then crush the pocketted troops. This is a very common tactic which i cannot claim credit for - there are some well established routes to do this - take a closer look at the ofrum for some of these (little point in me repeating them all here - some better advice out there than I could give anyway). concentrate on DESTROYING enemy units and you will not have to face them twice
3) basics, basics, basics - attack from multiple directions if possible - every direction you attack from confers a (10%?) bonus. ensure you have your best leaders on the job (Field marshals with high skil levels and preferably some appropriate extra skills)

do not be too daunted by massive numbers. if you obey the basics, these can crumble very fast.

Good luck!

 

[unmerged(30222)]

The question is how to push the soviets further East form the line Leningrand-Moscow-Stalingrand. The infrastructure there is to low and I get a lot of attrition in my large stacks and the soviets seem not to suffer from this. I find it quite impossible to reach the Urals. Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[unmerged(17617)]

The question is how to push the soviets further East form the line Leningrand-Moscow-Stalingrand. The infrastructure there is to low and I get a lot of attrition in my large stacks and the soviets seem not to suffer from this. I find it quite impossible to reach the Urals. Any ideas or suggestions?

There is a line of provinces of relatively high infra that runs roughly from Stalingrad all the way to Vladivostok. Most of the VP provinces are located at that line, apart from Baku, which you need for the BP, and some provinces near the border with Sinkiang, which you don't need for the BP. Magnitogorsk is located relatively close to the Urals and is on that line.

As Germany I usually take an area between archangelsk and the southern tip of the Urals, which are mostly 40+ infra provinces. If you want to go for a complete annexation, focus on that line and the VP-provinces, there is no need to capture all of Siberia. As long as you destroyed a big part of the Soviet Army in the beginning, they shouldn't cause too much problems .

 

[Zebedee]

I've been lurking for a few days, and am very new to the game but I found it much easier to puppet the Soviets as an Axis regime than to try to force the bitter peace event.

My tactic to beating the Soviets has been simply to launch a two pronged panzer assault (von Manstein and Rommel) to the 'grads' and follow up with axis infantry who I have almost got up to German levels of efficiency through shared research. My German infantry divisions work their way to Moscow through Soviet divisions totally demoralised by stuka strikes. If you get your Eastern European allies up to scratch in the infantry then you can meet the Soviets on almost a parity basis in numbers and with an edge in tech.

It's also been quite useful to puppet Poland so their infantry can join in the fun too.

The last time I did this, the Russians went rampaging through Asia, leaving Japan's navy free to play tag with the USA. I went for a wander in Africa before crossing to South America.

But as I said, I'm new and it may be that I've just been lucky so far.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

Ok lets throw some petrol onto the fire...

Can units of 5 divisions be enough to encircle quickly enough. I usually cap my targets in game so that research doesnt go to far ahead of its time in HRL.

Therefore, I have Pz IIIs (Basic Med) in groups of three with one Arty Brigaded! I have between 5-9 korps. Furthermore, the have between 1-2 MOT inf, usually a mix of straight division and another with a brigade of type AA or E.

THese work fine but the problem I have is getting them into position quickly enough to enable a straight win at the battle (ie low cost). And then I have problems actually encircling, trying to emulate Sheridan by using the coast as a wall to work against.

For instance encircling Bruxelles is done, but about 2weeks behind scheudle as the AI SRs its 50 or so divisions and then proceed to relocate them. Given bad luck most of the time I meet them before I win a battle in a crucial hex so I have retreat and try after the AI has settled doing its thing!

Eventually though I do succeed in France and go to the Balkans. After which I have an additional 5 pzkorps of PzVIs but all my MOT inf, has been changed to MECH.

SO for Barbarossa I end up with about 15 korps of 3 ARM and 2MECH each with a A brigade in the ARMs and either a E or AA brigade in the MECHs.

However, I have major problems actually getting anywhere fast. Encircling is a no-no. Only my AXIS friends usually SLO under MC and the AI HUN and ROM armies actually do well in the south, but taht because the AI dumps its forces up north where my Pz armies are!

As for Air with the 4 unit rule it doesnt really allow for power bombing and my fuighter airforces get mangled before they can even force the soviets back. By this time I only have 109ME and only a few IMP sr fighters!

 

[unmerged(38785)]

I try to use Stalin's own greed to create a flanking assault. I watch the political map carefully. When Russia starts to whip Finland in late '39'/early '40' I start taking over the countries between Poland and Leningrad. This causes Russia to be concerned enough about them to pull back. THis allows Finland to regroup and remain a threat to the Russian north. When I bust through to Leningrad I continue on around to the north and east of the lake east of Leningrad. I cut off that passage to Murmansk and proceed to take away any natural geographical features that the Russian army can anchor to. This causes encirclement or withdrawal towards Moscow. This lack of a natural anchor becomes a major problem. Once this happens just run another assault force from the middle of the eastern front to the northeast to Moscow and see what happens.

 

[Kanitatlan]

I'll simply recommend reading my German mechanised AAR and try a practise game doing something similar. You may find other AARs that provide enough detail for you to practise by trying to copy them. (By the way, I don't mean you should copy it in detail, just try some of the strategic decision and campaign detail). I would be very interested to know if following the AAR is an effective way to learn so if you try it please let me know how it goes. Many of us old hands have played for so long we have forgotten what new players need to know to do well.

 

[Zebedee]

That is a one extensive AAR Kanitatlan. Very, very interesting in how you have taken apart the game mechanics.

I've tried it tonight and it did help a lot with working out how to actually win battles while taking minimal losses.

As you said all the way through the AAR, it's a game player's guide to the game. As such, it's probably a little too detailed for the first time player. I think it's the kind of thing you appreciate after a few tries under your own steam. To be honest, the first thing I looked for was when I could build King Tigers when I started as Germany for the first time, so an army of mech units isn't what I would use even knowing it is the most efficient way to win.

I need to go make up to my girlfriend for ignoring her all night now but I've got to say the advice, the FAQ section and the mods for HOI are fantastic. Seems a shame I only found out about the game a fortnight ago...

 

[unmerged(39623)]

If u using version 1.06c, Colmar is undefended from begininning. Try an early assault on it using your tanks in Jan 1936. At same time use your 6 troops at the rightest hand side of your territory for invasion on UK mainland sneak in near coventry. U should suffer heavy loses in this planned invasion in terms of ships but after Uk mainland is captured u won't be needing them much either. After Colmar is down, push towards Paris and vichy while grabbing as much land as possible while avoiding the France main troop. Do remember to put 1 troop in excess of

If u r playing CORE with give me a challenge I am a pro, to counter the out of supplies situation use your tanks to wack luxemburg to get the 2000 supplies than push into metz in Jan 1936, It should not be defended. Belgium should be in the allies side now. Put 2 troops each defending each small land near Belgium, this is more than enough. Simulatneoulsly attack Coventry using the tactic above. Your supplies will come from London and Paris.

Avoid the France troop and move on. After chaumont is captured, the troops in Paris will move out to try stop u in the instance maybe no troops eventually at paris. Same as above grab land. I defeated France without confronting much of its troops.

The only problem with CORE will be poland will demand oppen and elding or setting? Forget already. Give it to poland no choice cause never a war on both sides. Poland may declare war also so it will be best to put a few troops guarding the line. As poland's manpower is badly insufficient plus most of its troops need reenforcing in beginning, don't worry much about poland even if it attacks.

After vichy and UK mainland is down turn back grab Belgium and netherlands, denmark etc. Time your assault and avoid any countries in conflict with Soviet. To save time on moving from very far locations esp when the force pool is full use ships. When redeploy in force pool the organisation gets halved also.

There's no need for much defending on borders. Wait for a unit to be at full organisation than leave it in the force pool so that any emergency can activate at once.

Have fun.

 

[unmerged(30222)]

Ok, sooner or later (and with a lot of effort) the Soviet Steamroller will fall. After that what? Is there an event by which you can bring UK to it's knees?
It is stupid to occupy the Isle and the Tommies to be still fighting. Overall annexation is much to unreal!

 

[unmerged(39876)]

I watch the political map carefully. When Russia starts to whip Finland in late '39'/early '40' I start taking over the countries between Poland and Leningrad. This causes Russia to be concerned enough about them to pull back. .

Is that with fog of war on?

 

[unmerged(22807)]

I have to agree to Kanitatlan that his German Mechanized AAR is an excellent guide to winning as Germany. I´ve just been playing a game following the general guidelines (mechs instead of tanks and so on), though not as "carefully" as he did (I think too much analyzing takes the fun away a bit in my opinion).
In previous games I´ve had some problems beating Russia and big problems invading great britain. This time they didn´t stand a chance against the massive german mech armies. The conclusion I´ve come to is that with a tank strategy you can field about 40-50 basic med 70mm tanks if you begin barbarossa in 1940 (which I usually do). With a mech strategy I managed to have 80 divisions of mechs along with 120 infantry. The difference was huge. Poor Stalin had to change capitol once a week. In late 41 they surrendered.
I was also possible to do research in other areas (submarines in this case), due to all the tank research I didn´t do.

 

[unmerged(35535)]

Early war strategy works best.

The key to victory is to plan ahead and know where you'll be one year hence and build your needs accordingly. With the early war strategy, I took France, Britain, Russia, and USA by Sept 1942 with no more than 180 infantry and 27 armor divisions with no air except for naval bombers (which are as good as gold). Research should be concentrated on armor, artillery, oil, and doctrines. Ally with Italy AFTER you crush France (garrison with no more than 16 infantry), Belgium, AND take Gibralter with the 6 mountain divisions that you had the forsight to build. Move your troops to UK with the 12 transports that you had the foresight to build, and take Austria at the same time. Garrison UK with no more than 8 infantry, then move through Yugoslavia and Greece (you should be in the summer 1937 latest). Get military access through Turkey and Iran. Move units through Turkey and take Iraq, then to India through iran. Take New Deli and puppet UK. Move back to Europe and take Czech and Poland. By April 1940, invade Russia with 160 German divisions and with Rumanian and Hungarian armies that you control. Use massive southern thrust, encircle marshes from behind, move north and take leningrad and through to archangel. Back to Moscow, Stalingrad, Baku, and the other Ural city for bitter peace. The best I've done is bitter peace by Dec 1940. Move units back west, and transport army to Panama which you annex with the transports and battle ships and cruisers that you began building in late 1939 early 1940. I usually have 50 or transports and 27 to 36 battle ships/cruisers although it really depends when you start to build. Move units to Mexico which has already given you military access. Set up a convoy from panama to the southern most mexican state which puts the supply line on the west side of central america and out of the main sea lanes. You've had the foresight to create 6 naval bombers that you have not yet deployed but are in the reserve pool. With Panama annexed, you deploy them strait to panama and set up a naval trap; you will crush the US navy here as it goes through west to east and back. You will station your cruisers here to prey on enemy convoys. Move through the US as fast as you can, encircle and destroy. with any luck, they have been at war with you for some time and are spread throughout the world. Skip denmark and netherlands, norway, and the rest. You can make it work; I've done this several times and it works. Remember, use research to increase organization for army and naval units and for artillery and engineers. By russia, my infantry is 95 org, armour 101 or 112 org and I always have PZ IV's by that time. Skip air research except for early naval bombers. Good luck.

 

[unmerged(1047)]

The problem with your strategy, 2 Coats, is the artillery brigades mixed in with your panzer corps. That will slow them down. Also mixing motorized and panzers will too, I think, as I seem to recall panzers usually have speed 12 and motorized has speed 10?

 

[Kanitatlan]

The problem with your strategy, 2 Coats, is the artillery brigades mixed in with your panzer corps. That will slow them down. Also mixing motorized and panzers will too, I think, as I seem to recall panzers usually have speed 12 and motorized has speed 10?

On vanilla HOI the artillery brigades no longer slow anything down.

Motorised have move 8 with most armour (and mechanised) having a move of 10. Heavy armour is move 8. The difference can be quite important as moving slightly better than twice as fast as enemy infantry can be quiteb important (+10% move due to school of maneouver minister).