How to use support companies effectively?

[Commissar Yossarian]

Yes

That would make you wonder why you can have ultra-modern TDs without any AT tech.

Great tips!

The research in general needs a lot of work. Very little cross pollination between various research fields. The other offensive one is complete waste that is radar.

 

[fredgiblet]

I only use support AT and Arty with specialized units like mountain, marine, and paratroop units. The contribution per gun produced is so much less than line units that they just don't seem worth it to me. But being droppable, not taking frontage, and not affecting the terrain bonuses as much means they are much more useful with these specialized units.

Same, my mobile units get SPGs, my foot units get line arty. Only specialists get support arty.

 

[fredgiblet]

The research in general needs a lot of work. Very little cross pollination between various research fields. The other offensive one is complete waste that is radar.

I'm hoping that BlackICE has something that lets you research the guns themselves and then apply them to foot or vehicle mounts.

 

[paulatreides0]

My general rule of thumb: everything gets recon and engy, because recon and engy are always good additions to literally every division. Logistics company get added on afterwards to every division as well, because they are never, ever a bad thing. For armored divisions they get maintenance companies, because saving tanks is really good. Almost always add support ART because I use width 20 divisions, but if I went up to 40 I wouldn't add it in. I also try to get field hospitals into every infantry unit sooner or later.

Yes

The research in general needs a lot of work. Very little cross pollination between various research fields. The other offensive one is complete waste that is radar.

Radar is very useful if you need to fight a protacted air war, e.g. the Battle of Britain. And if you are on the offensive you are usually doing lots of defending against strat bombers and fighters. RADAR is perhaps most important for offensive players to help them defend the homeland.

 

[Commissar Yossarian]

Radar is very useful if you need to fight a protacted air war, e.g. the Battle of Britain. And if you are on the offensive you are usually doing lots of defending against strat bombers and fighters. RADAR is perhaps most important for offensive players to help them defend the homeland.

I'll give you this may be true in MP but it's definitely not the case in SP.
The AI is so ineffective that as Germany I've never suffered any adverse effects from bombing. All Germany produces is fighters from 36 until the UK falls and it doesn't matter. If you're silly enough to try an offensive air campaign then it's on your head anyways.
The UK is even easier to ignore radar since it starts with it researched and limited installations already built.

The big issue is that you don't need to research it for your ships or to install it on your aircraft. These things had a huge impact on combat performance but are completely ignored.

Also they need to change the air combat completely anyways. Then they could build radar back into the combat resolution in a meaningful way. No more teleporting planes, proper ground vectoring, modifiers to night combat, proper fleet engagement in both directions, etc.

 

[Commissar Yossarian]

On topic, signal companies are still utterly garbage.
Their speed to planning bonus is junk since you cannot stop once you've started an offensive or you give up your strategic initiative which is damming bad. The enemy once set on their heels must be kept there at all times until they collapse. By constantly winning your troops will retain their advantage.
The marginal benefit of faster reinforcement of troops and material shouldn't make or break your offensive anyways, as then you're gambling on victory rather than having achieved victory before executing the attack.
As previously mentioned the reinforcement bonus in a battle by divisions is useless as well since you should be managing it much better than the AI could anyways.

So as it stands right now the support companies you build into your divisions should always follow something as below (priorities can flip order)
Eng
Rec
S.Art (Special forces only)
Logistics/Field Hospital (order dependant on country and theatre)
Maintenance (divisions with things that roll)

The one screw ball I've played around with is adding R.Art to Paras or Mnt to bump their SA and breakthrough. Cannot say if it's worth it, but generally I'm researching rocket artillery anyways since I like adding it to my fast mobile divisions. It's not as good as SP but it fills in the otherwise wasted division slots. Also bumps breakthrough without needing tanks. Combined with L.TDs it actually makes for a decent mobile infantry assault division. And it's fast.

 

[Fishy101]

I like mixing mountaineers with marines for an all-round excellent fighting force in replacement of standard infantry. Infantry have more defense and HP, while mountaineers and marines have more organization, firepower, and breakthrough. So that means mountaineers and marines are better for attacking (since breakthrough is the protective stat used when you are attacking, while defense is the protective stat used only when you are the one being attacked). In addition, the way marines and mountaineers give their bonuses is by an aura - so by mixing mountaineers and marines, both teams get to be fairly good at both fighting in hills/mountains and over rivers and in marshes. The river crossing bonus is particularly devastating, especially against players, because most players feel safe defending a river. That's not the case when the opponent's army is filled with marines.

Another thing is if you are nation who has both an infantry expert and a commando expert in their high command, you can actually buff your mountaineer/ marine divisions twice for a lovely +30% attack, +20% defense, whereas your regular infantry would only get the infantry expert buffs for +15%/+10%. If your entire army is mountaineers and marines that means your whole army gets that extra buff.

For a high manpower/ low IC nation, using infantry divisions without artillery but with commandos instead for that extra punch is perfect. All you need for marines and mountaineers, after all, is just a bit more infantry equipment.

That's an interesting idea!

 

[Fishy101]

Thanks for all the helpful advice.

I've been playing Romania without researching AT. Its 1946 and I've encounter few enemy divisions that my units couldn't pierce (mostly USSR heavy tank divisions).

I'm surprised that Signal companies aren't more useful given that they have the highest requirements for research and use up motorized units.

 

[KevinG]

As a side note, if you have maintenance companies in all your units you can exercise them as much as you want and you lose nothing. For that reason I usually never exercise any of my troops anymore until I have maintenance companies, since gaining experience at no cost is OP.

There is a base chance for you to lose equipment even if you have maintenance companies. If you don't believe me, next time you exercise look at your supply tab. You will be bleeding equipment, including support equipment. It doesn't matter if reliability is over 100%.

 

[tomstegmeier]

Signal companies are good and one of the most importand and underestimated ones...

Sry on tablet cant write wall of text to argue, maybe later

 

[EntropyAvatar]

Personally I rarely use logistics anymore. I did at first - until I realized that the hospitals and maintenance crews effectively nullify most of what attrition can do to you, and they also provide benefits in reducing combat losses as well.

What about the low supply combat malus, movement malus and org loss? Those seem pretty significant. Also, attrition doesn't doesn't cost manpower, so hospitals don't affect that.

 

[Fishy101]

There is a base chance for you to lose equipment even if you have maintenance companies. If you don't believe me, next time you exercise look at your supply tab. You will be bleeding equipment, including support equipment. It doesn't matter if reliability is over 100%.

I tested out and its true. You will always lose equipment training. No way around it really.

 

[Dudas Drakaan]

I'm doing some further testing on the attrition matter. In my French game I was definitely not getting any attrition from exercising that I could see. In my German game, however, I was getting attrition despite my troops have 103% reliability. So there is definitely something going on. Maybe there is a base chance of failure that is very very low?

 

[Dudas Drakaan]

There is a base chance for you to lose equipment even if you have maintenance companies. If you don't believe me, next time you exercise look at your supply tab. You will be bleeding equipment, including support equipment. It doesn't matter if reliability is over 100%.

What about the low supply combat malus, movement malus and org loss? Those seem pretty significant. Also, attrition doesn't doesn't cost manpower, so hospitals don't affect that.

I tested out and its true. You will always lose equipment training. No way around it really.

Ok, so I was mostly worried over nothing. The reason I was bleeding equipment in my German game after I told my 80+ divisions to start exercising was that I didn't have maintenance companies with my infantry divisions in that game (haha!). After fixing that, I cut all production on a few lines of equipment and viewed the effects of training my troops for a few weeks.

I stopped production on the pieces of equipment these particular troops were using, positioned my troops where they would not suffer from other forms of attrition, and then let things roll. I found a few very interesting.

#1: There is always equipment loss with attrition. But it is very, very, very small. That leads me to believe that there might be a very small minimum to attrition. Like 2-7 equipment lost per day for 80 divisions. Oooooh! Such bad attrition.



#2: Reliability fluctuates with the weather. Look, this is the same unit in different weather.



Since these drops are based on averages throughout the day, it would not surprise me if the <1% loss I am experiencing can be attributed simply due to the weather and that the difference is much larger than demonstrated. Maybe in bad weather equipment can be destroyed regardless of reliability.... So don't exercise in the rain I guess?

#3: THE UI IS A LIE!!! Not waiting till your troops have 100% of their support equipment will result in your troops bleeding equipment, most likely since the maintenance companies do not themselves have 100% of their equipment so they are not 100% effective, despite what the UI may tell you. My equipment losses accelerated when I exercised divisions not at 100% fighting strength.



So make sure when you put maintenance divisions into companies you actually have the supplies to fully equip them - otherwise they are totally useless.

 

[Ptirodaktill]

ENG - awesome terrain bonuses, some minor bonus to entrenchment. Best sup for every division.
Rec - 25% bonus to defence,usefull for fort garnison, useless for everyone else. Never use them with tanks. Never research them beyond lvl 1 .
MP- help with manpower while garnisoning occupied territories , useless for everyone else.
Maintenance - somewat usefull for MARM brigades if you want to boost their engines . Useless for everyone else.
Hospital - usefull from 39 tech, vital from 42 tech. Worth research rushing .
Log - usefull from 42 tech, not worth rushing Provide increasing returns with Mass Assault doctrine.
Signal - useless.
Sup ART, sup RART - small bonus to SA, usefull for everyone. With superior firepower provide some org .
Sup AT - usefull for paratroopers, if your enemy field HTD in foot divisions, useless for everyone else.
Sup AA - a waste of research, slot and production. Never use it, dont even research it.

 

[tomstegmeier]

Recon gives a speedboost, hardly useless in tank divisions... a lot og mp games in hoi3 thought me, sig is not useless. To bring in reenforcements twice as fast as your enemy can be decicive.

 

[Ptirodaktill]

Recon gives a speedboost, hardly useless in tank divisions... a lot og mp games in hoi3 thought me, sig is not useless. To bring in reenforcements twice as fast as your enemy can be decicive.

10% movement bonus on dificult teran is hardly a speed boost, and rec eat your armor, hardness and manpower.
and instead of what do you want to put sig for foot infantry? eng+log+hosp+art+rart Do you tink trading SA for reinforcement is a good deal?

 

[tomstegmeier]

Its 10% faster then before, so yes its a boost. And trading a little bit of SA for better reenforcement is worth, better to bring your 250 sa in by hour 2 then your 280 by hour 4. But i would kick out log or use line art instead of sup art, so there is that... different styles i assume

 

[Indigo Blue]

10% movement bonus on dificult teran is hardly a speed boost, and rec eat your armor, hardness and manpower.
and instead of what do you want to put sig for foot infantry? eng+log+hosp+art+rart Do you tink trading SA for reinforcement is a good deal?

But, if you are moving faster then your enemy you can secure more over runs...

 

[Ptirodaktill]

But, if you are moving faster then your enemy you can secure more over runs...

thats why air superiority is OP=)