How to Trebizond ?

[abedfo]

Looking for a strategy to restore the Komenoi dynasty to constantinople.

I normally manage to eat the Georgian, Circassian and Crimean region, however the Ottomans eventually come knocking.

As Trebizond what is the best way to deal with the Ottos early on?

 

[schaedel]

I never played Trebizond, but have played in this area with some tags (Theodoro, HisnKeyf, both Quounlyus and so on). So my strategy is only a guess, sorry for that.
I don't think it is wise to go for Georgia area (Imereti, Georgia, Samche, maybe even Circassia) too early, unless you can finish a war in the first 2/3 years (Imereti should be possible, I guess) Why? Because the Ottos will in nearly 100% wage war with Albania!
Get certain alliances you can at game-start, I think Karaman, Dulkadir will both be possible from the get-go. As Aq-Quonlyu will want your land, it could be possible to ally Quara-Quonlyu (Aq's natural arch-enemy).

My first moves would be: Ally 2 of Dulkadir, Ramazan, Karaman immediately (should be possible as most of them will like you at game-start, all 3 nearly impossible, due to internal rivalries) absolutely DON'T ally Theodoro (historical ally gamwise, but AI-Theodoro is as useless as they can get) Improve Relations with Albania from the get-go.

Your second diplomat should either get a claim on Imereti or improve with Quara, don't know what would be better. Watch Albania and its allies (if you are lucky, they will be even allied to Hungary, normally it's stuff like Serbia, Genoa and of course they are guaranteed by Venice (and their trede league). Also don't ally Byz, unless Byz has very strong allies (veryvery unlikely, though I have senn them with Aragon AND Castille as allies in January 1445, absolutely no idea how that was even possible). Usually, Byz is doomed and will be the Otto's 1st target.

With 2 (or luckily 3 alliances) on your side, the Ottos will at least not attack you immediately (at least I hope so, but I rarely have seen them go for Trebizond very early, it usually takes until around 1460 or so). Keep that Relations with Albania very high, but DON'T ally them yet. If you can manage AND finish a war with Imereti in the mean-time, please do so, you have to finish that war until 1447/early 1448. Army up to Fl (Maybe, if you can afford it, even 2-3 k more) When the Ottos declare on Albania, wait a little while (send ships to see coastal regiments and stuff like that) until the Otto troops are on the European side and THEN join the Alliance with Albania. Hopefully it should be possible to smash the Ottos. But keep in mind that you have to do a separate peace to secure your own territorial gains, in case of victory, as Albania will take lots for themselves, you don't need Albania anymore after that war, so ditch them afterwards. With a little bit of luck, you should now be able to ally the Mamluks, have a much bigger powerbase and weakened Ottos.

Good luck, pal

 

[schaedel]

One more important note: I totally forgot that you are Orthodox. That may prevent the Mamluks from allying you, but there is one big orthodox player near you: You can almost guaranteeed ally Russia once Relations are up. They should keep you safe. just watch their economic state, they tend to "debt-spiral"

 

[enKage]

Muscovy is weak gurantee of peace, believe me. Always on debt and low on manpower, the only certain thing is that muscovy will betray you. You are not Georgia, Serbia, Wallachia to have more options to stay orthodox, so Don't be orthodox

Early on you can try to join Genoa trade leage, sometimes happens. Remove fort of course.

Theodoro is usually nice target, they are often either into novgorod war as a member of their leage or involved in Georgian mess, so you should easily have an opportunity to take it. Now for more safety you can become a tributary of Crimea (sometimes, if they don't want your land).

Your main target should be Candar. Go temprary over limitto siege fort, take their land, convert to islam, shift culture!
Now you have more alliance options, including mamluks and AQ.
And because you would have land on both sides of black sea, ottomans would constantly go from one side to the other, giving your allies chance to siege something


There is also an option of taking advantage of fall of byzantium, taking the rest and runaway from Ottomans' sphere of influence

--

Oh, usual opening - show strength on Imereti on the very first possible day, 100 mana every kind is priceless. This will also cause some wars between geargian minors, so Thedoro can potentially lose their allies.

 

[Blust]

Eat Caucasus asap, then 3 roads are available : if Timurids / Qara Qoyunlu are in trouble, eat to Persia then to India. If Muscovy is doing ok economically, eat Poland / Lithuania with them. Or as the third road : eat Genoa as soon as he quit the Empire, take Corsica or Genoa (depending on AE) and join the HRE.

Or if you're lucky as I was : befriend Ottomans. Then profit :

Good luck man !

 

[Methuen of Melnibone]

A slightly cheesy thing to do is to take over some OPM near the HRE, Italy is good for that - win the war, join the empire. Grow in penny packets around the place until you're well enough, and have enough friends, to attack the Ottomans. Even cheesier would be to become Emperor, and stamp all over them late-game with your vassal-swarm. Never got quite that far, though.

I've tried doing in the hard way (posters above having much more luck), but regardless of how much Steppe land I conquer, eventually the Ottomans roll up the entire thing - and as has been pointed out, the Russians are almost British-level useless as allies.

 

[abedfo]

A slightly cheesy thing to do is to take over some OPM near the HRE, Italy is good for that - win the war, join the empire. Grow in penny packets around the place until you're well enough, and have enough friends, to attack the Ottomans. Even cheesier would be to become Emperor, and stamp all over them late-game with your vassal-swarm. Never got quite that far, though.

I've tried doing in the hard way (posters above having much more luck), but regardless of how much Steppe land I conquer, eventually the Ottomans roll up the entire thing - and as has been pointed out, the Russians are almost British-level useless as allies.

Yeah I was thinking cheesing the Albania-Byzzie strat as I've done that quite a few times as the later.

Also I was thinking about no cb Byzzies when ottos declare, steal Constantinople, vassalize and then call in my allies. Though not sure what allies I could even get.

 

[schaedel]

I don't know, I just dislike cheesy stuff or intentional religion-switches from one "major" religion into another group. If I conquer Ramazan and switch to Sunni, well, then I could have started as Ramazan anyway

To each his own, no offense meant, it's just, the only religius options for Trebizond in my opinion are all the other christian denominations, would help with allies, but Orthodox is not that bad, simply put

 

[enKage]

I don't know, I just dislike cheesy stuff or intentional religion-switches from one "major" religion into another group. If I conquer Ramazan and switch to Sunni, well, then I could have started as Ramazan anyway

To each his own, no offense meant, it's just, the only religius options for Trebizond in my opinion are all the other christian denominations, would help with allies, but Orthodox is not that bad, simply put

The thing is Tebizond has no options early for allies, and later the only strong ally is Muscovy, which in current patch is very unreliable due to debts and manpower, and usually AQ start with your land demanded (and AQ tend to ally Ottomans)

It is not Theodoro to join Genoa easly (Trebizond not necessairy - the factor is Thoe thretened by Crimea and Crimea being rival of Genoa)
It is not Georgian minor to unite Georgia and secure alliances via army strength
It is not Byzantium to be able to join Venice leage at worst scenario
It is not Serbia, who can eeasily quickly fall under any PU (Milan usually want to marry the first day) and find strong allies via support ndependence
and so on

For me the most reliable way to Trebizond is to take Theodoro, become tributary while securing alliance with Muscovy, then take Candar, force Islam and ally mamluks.
Having Muscovy and mamluks as allies is much better tthan having one of them, pretty probable to refuse defensive wars


The true fate of Trebizond is to remove Ottos from Asia Minor

Spoiler

 

[schaedel]

Alright pal! As I said, absolutely no offense meant and contrary to me, you have ACTUALLY played Trebizond. Allying Genoa with Theodoro is not that common, by the way, but of course you can join their trade league, but I guess the same goes for Trebizond? You are a OPM as well and should have no problems to join that trade league? Apart from that I tink Theo and Treb are very similar, the biggest (immediate) threat for Theo is Crimea, the biggest for Treb is Aq, otherwise it's a wash, more or less (at least I hope so )

 

[Josar]

Muscovy is a good early ally, as you build up your force limit, you should be able to ally Mamuluks too. A decently strong Trebizond allied with Mamuluks should prevent Ottomans from attacking either one of you, and can block much of their expansion options.

Then you will want to expand away from Ottomans as much as possible.

Put on the burghers privilege that increases tolerance.

 

[schaedel]

I don't think you need the Burghers privilege (at least not that one, I always settle for +1 DIP-points and -25% DIP-advisorcost). You can conquer Imereti, Georgia, Circassia and Theodoro (all orthodox) with the set-up and your enemies nearby, this will keep you occupied for the first 20-30 years (at least when you are as incompetent as I am), after that you can easily convert the crappier sunni provinces with high stab, a +missionary advisor and state-edicts, religious is a great group in this area anyway, so pick it up early and convert anything

 

[KaiserJohan]

Declare on Theobroro, siege him and wait for inevitable Crimea war declaration. Then force vassalize him and call in your allies to annex him too. That's a decent start.

 

[schaedel]

Declare on Theobroro, siege him and wait for inevitable Crimea war declaration. Then force vassalize him and call in your allies to annex him too. That's a decent start.

At the very beginning? Ant then what to do with Crimea? You can't vassalize them without sky-high liberty-desire and Crimea and Yedishkul (the provinces) have more than 10 development, Yedishkul even 18 I think, you won't be able to convert, I just feel that's a fish way too big to swallow, I would prefer the detour around Georgia and co, but on the other hand, I am by no means a WC guy, so I probably prefer chicken-shit

 

[enKage]

At the very beginning? Ant then what to do with Crimea? You can't vassalize them without sky-high liberty-desire and Crimea and Yedishkul (the provinces) have more than 10 development, Yedishkul even 18 I think, you won't be able to convert, I just feel that's a fish way too big to swallow, I would prefer the detour around Georgia and co, but on the other hand, I am by no means a WC guy, so I probably prefer chicken-shit

Annex Crimea
increase autonom to have time to core 1 state
Culture shift to Crimean
move capital for 0 autonomy
core the rest with a discount
let sunni revolts convert you
choose religious school to ally Ottos

or as you want, stay forever with low religious unity eating your mana, gold and so on, expanding only to orthodox around, most of them with increased coring cost