How to tell who is a Great Power?

[Golladan]

I believed this is the case. It's actually quite easy to become 'great power'... some of the so called 'great powers' may not even be regional powers... just medium-sized blobs.

I don't believe this is the case. Genoa starts in the top 10 of one of the categories if I'm not mistaken and they are not a great power.
It's pretty easy to test.

@Golladan I could ally them and they were allied to Muscovy. I can't ally Muscovy because I have -100 GP modifier so Muscovy is a great power as am I so what Georgia gets 2 GPs but I can only have one?

Again, read the tooltip that pops up when pointing to the checkmark. The -100 doesn't prevent you from having a 2nd GP ally. It makes it less likely if you don't have enough positive modifiers to counter it.



ETA: I fired up a game and let a month pass.
The top 10 countries in the ADM category are:
1) Ming
2) Burgundy
3) Castile
4) Timurids
5) Austria
6) Lithuania
7) France
8) England
9) The Mamluks
10) Ottomans

Of those, all but The Mamluks are great powers.

The top 10 in Diplomacy:
1) Portugal
2) Oldenburg
3) Genoa
4) Urbino
5) Livonian Order
6) East Frisia
7) Luneburg
8) Wurzburg
9) England
10) Venice

Only England is a great power.

Top 10 Military:
1) Timurids
2) Ottomans
3) Austria
4) England
5) France
6) The Mamluks
7) Burgundy
8) Qara Qoyunlu
9) Portugal
10) Muscovy

All but Mamluks, Portugal, and Muscovy are great powers. Yes, QQ is a great power.

 

[unmerged(65679)]

I don't believe this is the case. Genoa starts in the top 10 of one of the categories if I'm not mistaken and they are not a great power.
It's pretty easy to test.
Again, read the tooltip that pops up when pointing to the checkmark. The -100 doesn't prevent you from having a 2nd GP ally. It makes it less likely if you don't have enough positive modifiers to counter it.



ETA: I fired up a game and let a month pass.
The top 10 countries in the ADM category are:
1) Ming
2) Burgundy
3) Castile
4) Timurids
5) Austria
6) Lithuania
7) France
8) England
9) The Mamluks
10) Ottomans

Of those, all but The Mamluks are great powers.

The top 10 in Diplomacy:
1) Portugal
2) Oldenburg
3) Genoa
4) Urbino
5) Livonian Order
6) East Frisia
7) Luneburg
8) Wurzburg
9) England
10) Venice

Only England is a great power.

Top 10 Military:
1) Timurids
2) Ottomans
3) Austria
4) England
5) France
6) The Mamluks
7) Burgundy
8) Qara Qoyunlu
9) Portugal
10) Muscovy

All but Mamluks, Portugal, and Muscovy are great powers. Yes, QQ is a great power.

Well either the scree or wasn't clear for you or it missed parts I, not sure. The GP Malus is -100. My relations with the, both ways don't exceed 100 in the positive so it's impossible for them to ally me but they did despite Muscovy being a GP. So for some reason doesn't apply to Georgia.

 

[Golladan]

So you don't understand how the GP malus works. Since you won't point to the green checkmark, I'll do it for you.

I'm Castile. As you can see, Portugal is allied to England, a Great Power, so they are getting the -100 malus and won't ally me.

But watch what happens when I increase Portugal's opinion of me.

Now they will ally me! Why? because all the positive reasons are higher than the -100 malus from them having a great power ally. So move your mouse over the green checkmark (or the red X)

Note that I only really needed to increase relations by 25, and not by 100, to get to the point where they would ally me.

 

[petertel123]

So you don't understand how the GP malus works. Since you won't point to the green checkmark, I'll do it for you.

I'm Castile. As you can see, Portugal is allied to England, a Great Power, so they are getting the -100 malus and won't ally me.

But watch what happens when I increase Portugal's opinion of me.

Now they will ally me! Why? because all the positive reasons are higher than the -100 malus from them having a great power ally. So move your mouse over the green checkmark (or the red X)

Note that I only really needed to increase relations by 25, and not by 100, to get to the point where they would ally me.

you completely missed the point

What leaves me baffled right now is that it doesn't seem to work the same way for the AI, I had an AI castille allied with england. portugal and austria

 

[Golladan]

you completely missed the point

What leaves me baffled right now is that it doesn't seem to work the same way for the AI, I had an AI castille allied with england. portugal and austria

What point did I miss? He's arguing that Georgia (not a great power) is allied with Muscovy (supposedly a great power. Muscovy doesn't start the game as a great gower, though they can eventually grow into one), and is also willing to ally with him (a great power).

I'm showing Portugal (not a great power) is allied with England (a great power) and is willing to ally with me (a great power). And I'm showing that if he just pointed to the damn checkmark he would understand how the -100 great power penalty works. I'm not entirely sure what his last post said, but it seemed like he was saying that because his relations with Georgia were under 100, the GP modifier shouldn't allow Georgia to ally him. Which is wrong.


AI Castile allied with Portugal, England, and Austria is possible. Portugal isn't a great power for a while.

 

[fleetothemoon]

ETA: I fired up a game and let a month pass.
The top 10 countries in the ADM category are:
1) Ming
2) Burgundy
3) Castile
4) Timurids
5) Austria
6) Lithuania
7) France
8) England
9) The Mamluks
10) Ottomans

Of those, all but The Mamluks are great powers.

The top 10 in Diplomacy:
1) Portugal
2) Oldenburg
3) Genoa
4) Urbino
5) Livonian Order
6) East Frisia
7) Luneburg
8) Wurzburg
9) England
10) Venice

Only England is a great power.

Top 10 Military:
1) Timurids
2) Ottomans
3) Austria
4) England
5) France
6) The Mamluks
7) Burgundy
8) Qara Qoyunlu
9) Portugal
10) Muscovy

All but Mamluks, Portugal, and Muscovy are great powers. Yes, QQ is a great power.

I stand corrected and also more confused than ever. Why would QQ be a great power when Mamluks is not?

 

[aitaituo]

I stand corrected and also more confused than ever. Why would QQ be a great power when Mamluks is not?

I think it's safe to say score and great powerhood are not directly related.

Where's the Bloke when you need him? With enough data from the ledgers of various games, we should be able to get a rough idea.