How to take over the US as Japan

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Grallak

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I wish there was a way to completely avoid war with the US and just take everything else in the pacific. But I guess that is impossible.

Now that I think of it. Perhaps it would be possible to do so. Imagine if you as Japan only annex parts of china and then cause coups in other pacific countries. If you do that, then you wouldn't raise WT too much, and you could focus on building atom bombs and simply nuke the US east coast. If you take out NY, Boston, Washington DC, then you have destroyed most of US industry, and if you destroy their Industry before they have a chance to use it, then you are golden. Since you only need things like Rubber and oil, which you can get through the colonies that revolt anyways, and perhaps indochina, you should have a decent chance of keeping the US out of the war long enough to develop this bombs. Then you would simply have to beeling from India to South africa and then to Cuba and so on, seize a couple of airports and basically just use your advanced airforce to nuke their cities. Once their industry is down, they are basically dead anyways. I wouldn't have to use so much of my research to improve my infantry since they wouldn't face any resistance from the US, and you could just mind your own business. We say how Johan managed to develop a bomb in around 1942 or so, so perhaps Japan could do something similar.
 
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mdw1985

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I'll play my first game with Japan and i got a nice plan about invading the U.S.

1st: An early attack would be certain death. Preparations will at least take until 1941

2nd: I saw on www, that the early attack of China would be also a big mistake. Japan's factories outnumber the chinese factories by far. So time concerning a good build up is your best friend. I've played it through and decided, to make an attack on China in spring of 1939, but on a massive scale with many naval invasions from north to south, a solid push from the northern territories and by using paratroopers to land behind enemy lines and creating pockets. The years of 1936-1938 are exclusively reserved for civilian factories. I should get a massive output of new military factories by 1939. Total victory should be achieved in less than six months. I'll annex the country as whole, to get every bit of factory for my further build up.

3rd British Raj and French Indonesia are dangerous strategic points, which could threaten my Navy, which i will need, to crush the U.S. British Raj can be taken out by staging a coup. Since this will require a lot of PP, i'll have to get to the "improve national spirit" focus, to get more income of them. French Indonesia is just a matter of time and may be accomplished in 1940 by the other focus.

4th Still, i have to solve my ressource problems, to make my build up independent from other nations. This requires, to take out Siam and the Dutch Indies. Siam, because it grants an excellent starting point for an invasion of singapur and Malaysia. The Dutch Indies, because they got pkenty if rubber and oil for my purposes. Since the Dutch and the Siamese won't be a dangerous threat, smaller armies can do the thing with support of Marines and Paratroopers. These measures can be taken by 1940.

5th Australia and New Zealand are dangerous players in the South, which could grant the U.S. some important Bases. But they also lack manpower and troops. So taking them doesn't require a strong effort. I'll draw a battleplan for them.

6th Also the U.S. Islands, Panama and the Philippines get their own battleplans.

7th And now to the really big problem: Mainland U.S. Invading the U.S. by Sea alone doesn't seem to be a good idea. Troop transports could be sunk and my carriers would be in danger. The best and more sneaky way would be, to get Mexico on my side, by aligning them to my own faction or staging a coup. Before war with the U.S. would even start, i could get a nice chunk of troops already at the Southern U.S. border. I'll use only the best and most motorized Divisions for this task, to be able to push hard, when the war starts. With Mexico on my side, i can also station troops there, to make a possible invasion of Florida, Louisiana and Texas by Sea. And last but not least, several naval invasions on the U.S. west coast (Canada included), where i will land with faster units in Canada and regular troops in the U.S. The Canadian troops are meant to push fast through Canada behind the U.S. coastal defense and to link up with the Southern push of Mexico. Simultanously, Panama would be taken, to cut off the Canal. The invading troops from the U.S. coast do the dirty work and mow everything, what stands in their way. The naval invasion from the Atlantic side should distract the Eastern troops of the U.S., before helping out in the West.

8th when war starts, all plans should be initiated simultanously, to grant the most success.

Taking the U.S. will be a hard thing, but i think it's possible, if you use paratroopers,marines and regular troops wisely....;)
 

Grallak

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I'll play my first game with Japan and i got a nice plan about invading the U.S.

1st: An early attack would be certain death. Preparations will at least take until 1941

2nd: I saw on www, that the early attack of China would be also a big mistake. Japan's factories outnumber the chinese factories by far. So time concerning a good build up is your best friend. I've played it through and decided, to make an attack on China in spring of 1939, but on a massive scale with many naval invasions from north to south, a solid push from the northern territories and by using paratroopers to land behind enemy lines and creating pockets. The years of 1936-1938 are exclusively reserved for civilian factories. I should get a massive output of new military factories by 1939. Total victory should be achieved in less than six months. I'll annex the country as whole, to get every bit of factory for my further build up.

3rd British Raj and French Indonesia are dangerous strategic points, which could threaten my Navy, which i will need, to crush the U.S. British Raj can be taken out by staging a coup. Since this will require a lot of PP, i'll have to get to the "improve national spirit" focus, to get more income of them. French Indonesia is just a matter of time and may be accomplished in 1940 by the other focus.

4th Still, i have to solve my ressource problems, to make my build up independent from other nations. This requires, to take out Siam and the Dutch Indies. Siam, because it grants an excellent starting point for an invasion of singapur and Malaysia. The Dutch Indies, because they got pkenty if rubber and oil for my purposes. Since the Dutch and the Siamese won't be a dangerous threat, smaller armies can do the thing with support of Marines and Paratroopers. These measures can be taken by 1940.

5th Australia and New Zealand are dangerous players in the South, which could grant the U.S. some important Bases. But they also lack manpower and troops. So taking them doesn't require a strong effort. I'll draw a battleplan for them.

6th Also the U.S. Islands, Panama and the Philippines get their own battleplans.

7th And now to the really big problem: Mainland U.S. Invading the U.S. by Sea alone doesn't seem to be a good idea. Troop transports could be sunk and my carriers would be in danger. The best and more sneaky way would be, to get Mexico on my side, by aligning them to my own faction or staging a coup. Before war with the U.S. would even start, i could get a nice chunk of troops already at the Southern U.S. border. I'll use only the best and most motorized Divisions for this task, to be able to push hard, when the war starts. With Mexico on my side, i can also station troops there, to make a possible invasion of Florida, Louisiana and Texas by Sea. And last but not least, several naval invasions on the U.S. west coast (Canada included), where i will land with faster units in Canada and regular troops in the U.S. The Canadian troops are meant to push fast through Canada behind the U.S. coastal defense and to link up with the Southern push of Mexico. Simultanously, Panama would be taken, to cut off the Canal. The invading troops from the U.S. coast do the dirty work and mow everything, what stands in their way. The naval invasion from the Atlantic side should distract the Eastern troops of the U.S., before helping out in the West.

8th when war starts, all plans should be initiated simultanously, to grant the most success.

Taking the U.S. will be a hard thing, but i think it's possible, if you use paratroopers,marines and regular troops wisely....;)
A good idea, but you also make a lot of presumtions, such as being able to stage a coup in mexico easily, the US not already being engaged with the allies, thus being able to support canada and already have an army. While it's definitely a better plan than what Daniel is doing AKA no real plan at all except take all loot all. It's just that it seems to me that the only real problem with US is it's insane IC. If you simply focused on building a few nukes after you take china and incite a coup in Canada, then you would be able to get into a position where you could hit basically all of US industry in one single attack. Now I am not sure how long it would take Japan to build a bomb, but if you focused on simply that and getting a facist canada with airbases near the east coast, then you are basically fine, since the US has no way of intervening. While it's probably going to be impossible for Japan to build a bomb until 1944 or 1945, if you manage to keep the US out of the war long enough then you would have a chance. You would definitely be able to simply attack the US directly from Canada. I don't know if the developers have some sort of plan to keep you out of Mexico and Canada, but who knows.

I also considered the idea if you had two players, one as brazil and one as Japan, then Brasil could take over south america and build up a large force themselves, and then combine it with the Japanese, then you would have really good odds of winning, but that idea kind of requires two players, but hey, what do I know.

Honestly though, It would be difficult to do these things before 1940-1941, and considering how WT Daniel had by 1938, and that is taking into account that Germany hasn't even gone to war yet, I find it difficult to believe the US wouldn't follow it's historical path and ally with the Allies before you had a chance to get Australia, canada etc. Again, I don't know if it's possible to take Mexico or canada by coups. I find it hard to believe that the US will simple stand by and do nothing. Add to that the fact that the US would be able to attack your ships before you have a chance to set up on the west coast or whatever. . . I don't know. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it takes a lot of things into account for your plan to work. If only there was some way to allign the US to your side, then you would have your flanks secured and could basically do whatever you wanted. If it was an actual player, then all of these plans would evaporate because a serious player would be able to prepare for them. While the US has it's political power weakened until the 1940 elections, that doesn't mean in will be incapable of making good preparations unless the AI is retarded.

I just don't feel very comfortable with being able to exploit the AI's weakpoints in order to win. It reaks too much HOI3 about it.

I would rather insist on another approach.

1. Like you said, focus on building up civilian factories from 1936 to 1937 or 1938 to get more military factories once the war starts.

2. While building up, grab the Dutch indies which contain rubber and oil which I need much more than anything I can find in China, and would enable me to free up more factories as I no longer have to worry about importing oil and rubber from the US.

3. Resource wise I would now be fine without having to invade anyone until 1938 or so. I am still dubious about whether to attack China or not, but I decided it would be better to do so, not because china has anything in particular, but I need military XP. I would however choose to puppet most of china other than the coast of whatever resources that it has plenty of to keep WT low, and frankly because I don't need anything in China really other than XP.

4. I would use coups in India and malaysia (If possible), to get India on my side and make sure the Brits won't become an Issue later on while I am hurling with America.

5. Now this is really where my strategy begins to diverge. By now, WT would be very high and pretty near 1940 or so, thus forcing me to act quickly before the US can start profitting from their freed up political power. Until now I would have mostly expanded my navy and my Army for the invasion of the US. How exactly this invasion would look like may depend on whether I can get Mexico or even Canada on my side. Australia and any other ports would be taken to prevent them from using them against me, and wouldn't be too difficult, with the UK being busy and weaked after losing India. I will just summarize a couple of ideas that I have.

5. The only thing the US truly excels over Japan is their IC. If I manage to take the east coast within six to twelve months, then I will most likely win. The question is should I begin the invasion from the Atlantic or the Pacific. AKA, should I try to ally with the Axis, help Germany take out England, and then from Canada simply stage my invasion from there? Frankly, this seems easiest, and I have seen a lot of people that do this. It's not really too hard either and could be accomplished very early, maybe between 1939 until 1940-41 when the US thinks about allying UK. The only issue with this is if the US is already allied with the UK, and then I wouldn't have the time transport my troops to Canada before the US manages to secure Canada. Personally, this would be the most preferable alternative, as it doesn't require me to take China, because I can simply focus on helping Germany and get UK possessions, (but only pick ports and such so that I can redirect my navy to England) and from there go to Canada, where I can set up a huge army. If Germany manages to keep WT within a reasonable level, then we should have about 80 to 90% by the time I puppet Canada. After that I can basically do whatever I like because the US won't be able to instantly invade me before I have managed to place all my troops on the border. I could then do naval landings combined with mechanized and other infantry troops to surround the US from multiple directions before it has time to react. If I start preparing a coup from around 1937 or 1938 in india, do all the other things I mentioned, then I don't see why I wouldn't be able to beat the US. Once the US is out of the game, I can just go into China, help Germany with SU or take colonies in the pacific or whatever.

Now, if I join the Axis, how would that affect WT? Also, would simply using the supplies in Canada be enough to support my army? At that point, even if WT is 100, it won't really matter because it will take the US some time to prepare claims anyways, so it will probably not declare a war just after WT spikes, but it's still a possibility. At any rate, Canada is my best chance of reach the East coast through the fastest way possible, so a war with the UK in 1939-1940 should not be excluded.

6. If I simply want to do my own thing, then I should still make careful preparations, try to get mexico or some other South American on my side so that I can set up some decent platform for me to attack from, and the war should be around 1940-1941. Since it would take a lot longer for me to reach the East coast, I would need better unit due to the stiffer resistance, so rather than invading the UK I might want to consider taking China for the XP (Although still puppeting them). Then I should make a beeline from the coast until I reach far enough to establish a line. Panama canal would of course be taken, and I would then have my troops supplied via the canal. This would be a lot more difficult, but I would be less dependant on Germany and even if the US was allied with the UK, they still wouldn't be able to help the US before it is too late.

It would be really cool if the US had the option to invade Canada upon an allied defeat to prevent it from falling into Axis hands, although I doubt that will be in the game.

Canada did actually manage to burn the White House in the 1812 border war, so I don't see why Japan would be unable to.
 
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Chrescerya

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For AI we'll have to wait till game is out to see how good it is ;)
Watching Da9l getting his ass kicked badly by US, just need to wait till tomorrow if he plays Japan

Strategy for an US invasion as Japan, would agree with mdw1985, need to have someone with continental access to US in your faction.
Mexico would seem the logical one.


Other option is to not join Axis, make own faction (let Germany die), go to war vs France early for south (before they join the Allies) similar with Netherlands (you need those resources), take on the Commonweath to dry out UK for Germany and gain massive resources and those individual wars might avoid being at war with the entire allied faction.
Also if UK and France are already at war, Poland might be less stubborn to resist German demands...
 

electriccat

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The first big aspect as Japan would be the question of why poke the sleeping giant until you are ready. Really you would want to delay attacking them as long as possible while gaining as much xp and material as possible. Working on flipping or taking the Raj. Skipping the Philippines and going after the rest of Oceania, SE Asia, Australia and NZ before turning around to look at the US. Then you would be able to have complete Pacific domination and much better material base to work from.

As for the US you have to triple prong it. Take out Alaska, Hawai'i and the Philippines all at once. Then look at how to get to the US West coast.
 

Harada.Taro

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easiest way is to invade Canada, line up your divisions along the USA border (invading Canada won't put you at war with USA.) wait until they move all their division north then invade mexico with one division.... The USA will rush their troops south leaving the north border undefended and you just have to steam roll down.

Of course it's only against AI
 
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urkuru

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Wouldn't it actually be better to just build up on navy enough to hold off US invasion on your territory while concentrating land forces on crushing USSR and British colonies together with axis. Then there would be chance that axis in Europe could actually win early. Afterwards even with all industrial capacity US would have a hard time to protect both coasts.
Granted, that wouldn't be early invasion but more possible option that early rush, mayhaps?
 
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Orlunu

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1. Early war with China, but play it mostly defensively. Only push when you have a massive advantage and you're not attacking. This is to prevent them from arming properly and industrialising in the couple of years after game start. Join anti-Comintern.

2. Build up for a major invasion of China in '39. Probably a major southern naval invasion to form a triangle between their western border and the coast. Drive in for a one year victory over China now, and join the Axis or found your own faction.

3. When hostilities break out between Germany and the USSR, wait for the USSR to have time to shift all its forces west, then invade Mongolia and the USSR. Naval invasion of Kamchatka and drive north. Basically, you want to help Germany knock the USSR out of the war and end up holding Mongolia and everything east of Baikal.

4. Amass landing forces in eastern Siberia and your Pacific Islands and have your navy split in two, holding the sea they'll have to cross. In the meantime, you'll have to fight in Burma and grab what islands you can from the Dutch and others. Stay in this mopping up stage as long as possible, until the US joins the war or their joining seems imminent.

5. By the time the US joins the war, you should only be fighting in Burma, and have an abundance of resources. The Axis will hold all of mainland Europe and quite possibly be driving into Africa or India. You will only really have to contend with the US. Land troops in Alaska with the highest priority, they should face little opposition and once they take Alaska they can just hole up there with a fairly secure eastern border. Rest of your forces hit the US in the south and take its Pacific islands. By the time the US starts actually turning out what it was building, you should control all access to the Pacific and be rolling up on the US from its southern half.

6. If they wasted a lot of their preparations building a navy, gg, you've won, steamroll them. If they've been building an army, you'll probably have to dig into some good defensive lines and hold against the storm. The good news is, you won't have to hold long. With Russia out of the fight early and you taking up all of the US's efforts, the other Axis countries will be able to roll through the UK's colonies and even mainland with relative ease, then it'll be US vs the world. If they're alive by this point, it's because they sacrificed a navy for the Army, and your allies will hit the eastern seaboard like a tidal wave.

7. Have a race and see if you can get a better division of the US than is shown in Man in the High Castle.

8. Prep for war against Germany. Y'know, just in case.
 
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LeibSSolmai

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I don´t think that you can just grab anything from any Europe country until Germany starts the war. If I remember right UK guarantees the Dutch independence and I also don´t think that they will sit idle if their Indian puppet becomes fascist. You can grab china because just noone really cares about them, but afterwards there isn´t anything to conquer until at least mid 1940.

My opinion is that the best way to attack the the US is by simply ignoring them as long as possible. You should be able to use the confusion after the fall of France to overrun whole Asia except the soviet parts and at the same time invade Arabia and Australia. If you manage to get to Suez the UK navy won´t bother you any more. Afterwards you use the massive amounts of resources to trade with your allies to gain more factorys.

For this plan you don´t need a really strong army because there shouldn´t be an strong resistance. You could use the free production capacity to build a strong air force which stops any US Invasion attempts with torpedos and kamikaze strikes.

Afterwards you should have a production capacity that can outproduce the US on the long run (at least if they Lend and lease large amounts of equipment to the USSR and the UK which has no resources anymore because you stole all their colonies).
 

AchedTeacher

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It is simple:

  1. You start to prepare (IC, tech, fleet, airforce, ground forces)
  2. You conquer china
  3. Enter Axis
  4. You help germany to conquer ussr
  5. You help germany to conquer uk mainland - they might need your navy
  6. Now is the perl harbor time - use bored german panzer to do your land bidding in US
Certainly seems simple.
 

Zbyszk0

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As Helmuth von Moltke once said, "No plan survives contact with the enemy". Or something like that. There's a lot of people here that love to make lengthy conjectures about how Hoi4 can be played, and a lot of these said people seem to think Hoi4 is a good place to start playing WW2 strategy games. They'll learn when the game comes out. Hopefully they'll keep playing after their big plan fails. That's probably the biggest reward to playing WW2 strategy games: thinking up a master plan that "should" have been used, and then finding out that the situations are a lot more difficult than imagined. Particularly when any given "Step #2" actually needed another 10 steps itself, and the whole plan falls apart shortly after.

It's hard to say how to play Japan against the U.S.A. without knowing exactly what will make the U.S. go to war. The tipping point when deciding when to engage the U.S., as I've found in previous HoI games, is the point where Japan's expanded wartime IC (assuming success in China and other points across Asia) is lower than U.S. peacetime IC. This will happen, the longer you delay war. Helping Germany fight the Soviets is a very good idea, as your army won't have all that much to do after beating China. This is probably what would have happened historically had the Japanese been able to deal the death blow to the Chinese. The problem here is how Japan can manage to fight basically the entire rest of the world simultaneously. It'll depend on what Japanese production looks like in Hoi4 at that point in the game.

Another major point is how long will it take to defeat the U.S.S.R.? Can we see the U.S. join the war before Japan can declare war on the Americans? These are things similar - but also slightly different - amongst the HoI games and their derivatives.
 

jcd000

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Simple in-game:
1. Conquer China
2. Invade Portugal. Now you got bases all over.
3. Invade mainland UK and then get their colonies right after
4. Build up some more & invade Siberia to ensure German victory and gain even more land.
5. DOW the USA, and take all of Asia. invading mainland US is optional

PS. On the event that (3) puts you at war with the US, try to defend until all the UK colonies are down, and defend even more while building up your economy. In the end, if the USA cannot invade your Pacific islands, its IC is irrelevant.
 
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Grallak

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I'm actually considering whether to attack the US at all. The more I think about it the more I realize that if I instead shift my focus to the UK, then I will neither have to take China or the US in the coming years. As someone pointed out earlier, the UK is guaranteeing Holland, so a war with Holland will mean a war with the UK aswell. Now I know a lot of my factories are lost due to needing them for trade with the US, so rather than trading with the US, how about attacking Holland, Australia, Malaysia and establish troop presence in Burma. I could then move my garrisons to all the bases that I take, use my aircrafts, subs and battleships around the cape of Pasai (North indonesia) and then simply hold the brits there. Since I would hold their airbases and contain whatever army they send at me in the Burmese mountains, along with the fact that the UK lacks carriers and subs, and would have little to no air support, I should be able to with relative easy be able to maintain them around Malaysia without having to face their navy. Eventually, war would start in Europe, and the UK would be forced to relocate their troops and navy to Europe in order to contain Italy and Germany. I would get all the oil, rubber and hopefully all the aluminium I would ever need once the UK loses, taking India and all other colonies they have in the pacific, either by puppeting or annexing them. Since I am only taking colonies for resources, I should be able to just puppet the colonies that don't have the resources I really need, keeping my WT low in comparison to for example Germany. Even if the US would be pissed, it would take much longer before they decided to delcare war on me. I would have a chance to get bases in canada or some islands in the caribbeans in a peacedeal with the UK ( I am assuming the AI will RIP by relocating it's forces to Asia). I would also get all the experience in all three branches that I need to make a super elite army. While holding malaysia, I would basically only build factories and focus entirely on increasing my industrial output, while the UK is busy spawning more shitty BS that will be outdated by the time I replace my ships. I know the UK has a big navy, but if I do this, take their bases, keep subs and aircrafts to support my BS and hold them around the strait where the combat width will be lower, then I think I have a pretty good chance of accomplishing just about every goal I have in the pacific without startling the US.

Honestly, this makes attacking China look semi-retarded, since you have to use your factories to build new shitty troops rather than improving your output, only to get xp in troops but not in navy, and not even acquire the resources that you really need. I am not sure how attacking the UK would work in the game, but if Japan dared attacking the US on open seas, I don't see why it wouldn't dare attacking the UK now that they have a chance to utilize their BS and carriers to their full potential.
 
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