How to take a nation in the HRE?

[IrishGirl]

I was going to add this to quick questions/quick answers, but I'm not sure it has a quick answer ... unless it's no, you can't. But that doesn't make sense since the AI seems to take nations in the HRE all the time.

So question: how do you - as a non-HRE nation - conquer or otherwise take a nation that's in the HRE.

Example: Playing as Poland, how would you take Silesia? Four provinces, all producing strong goods, pretty good development, but a member of the HRE?

Bohemia tried to take them in very early game and Austria called me into help put them down and give the land back. Now we're late early game (yes, I play slow) and I'm about to form the Commonwealth. Austria is an ally with a 200 opinion of me and owing me 42 favors. They're also the emperor.

Is there a way to do this or do I have to try and get a PU?

 

[JSparks101]

Get into a war outside the HRE with the Emperor on your side, then declare a second war inside the empire. Finish that one first. It may be worth keeping a small nation around just for this. If Austria is no longer the Emperor, you can safely declare war into the empire without them joining against you.

Alternatively, declare war on a nation allied to your enemy outside the empire and call your main enemy into said war.

 

[IrishGirl]

Okay, so will this work?

Austria declares on Venice and calls me in (we've been allies since 1443). That war is currently going on with a 52 warscore in our favor and I have a 20% participation. Can I just declare on Silesia?

Edit: NM, it won't let me declare a war on another member of the Empire while I'm participating in a war on the Emperor's side.

 

[JSparks101]

Okay, so will this work?

Austria declares on Venice and calls me in (we've been allies since 1443). That war is currently going on with a 52 warscore in our favor and I have a 20% participation. Can I just declare on Silesia?

Edit: NM, it won't let me declare a war on another member of the Empire while I'm participating in a war on the Emperor's side.

Yeah, you should however be able to do it whilst it is your war though

 

[Gopherbashi]

The Emperor will be called in to defend an HRE member against an aggressor from outside the Empire, unless they've rivalled that nation.

Your options are to declare on a non-HRE ally of Silesia, wait until Austria's war exhaustion is high enough that they won't honour the call, or go up against Austria.

 

[IrishGirl]

The Emperor will be called in to defend an HRE member against an aggressor from outside the Empire, unless they've rivalled that nation.

Your options are to declare on a non-HRE ally of Silesia, wait until Austria's war exhaustion is high enough that they won't honour the call, or go up against Austria.

That's what I was afraid of.

1. They have no allies outside of the HRE.
2. Austria's been at war, but their war exhaustion is still pretty low - since Hungary and I did a lot of their fighting for them.
3. I'm not ready to take on Austria yet as I want them to help me take out the Ottomans.

One question, though: if I declare on one nation and their ally joins the defensive war, can I take provinces from their ally without a claim? Or should I claim a province or two before I start the war?

The reason I ask is I might offer Silesia a royal marriage and hope for a PU, but if I put a claim on their land, they won't like me much.

 

[Nwaij]

You can take provinces from their allies, but expect AE to go through the roof if you didn't call them in as co-belligerents.

 

[Telenil]

Do note that the Emperor is automatically a co-belligerent, meaning he will call his own allies as well.

So yes, it can be extremely difficult to invade the HRE. Your best bet is, as you said, to attack a non-HRE ally of your target. Even then, taking a HRE province will give the Emperor a CB on you.

 

[Dakka]

Get into a war outside the HRE with the Emperor on your side, then declare a second war inside the empire.

You can’t declare war on the HRE if you are allied to the Emperor in a war

 

[Vetgirig]

You can do it in 2 easy steps:

1. Dismantle the HRE.
2. Declare war for Silesia.

Poland is one of the easiest countries to do #1 with.

 

[IrishGirl]

You can take provinces from their allies, but expect AE to go through the roof if you didn't call them in as co-belligerents.

Right, that makes sense. I'll keep that in mind.

I'm trying to avoid AE and other mali because of the annoying Szalchta, who keep refusing me manpower and troops. I know there's a rebellion event around 1600 that I can grab to finally kick them to the curb ... and I've never looked forward to rebellion until now. I cannot wait for that event.

Do note that the Emperor is automatically a co-belligerent, meaning he will call his own allies as well.

So yes, it can be extremely difficult to invade the HRE. Your best bet is, as you said, to attack a non-HRE ally of your target. Even then, taking a HRE province will give the Emperor a CB on you.

Okay, well I guess that's it then. I do see other nations withing the HRE (Bohemia, for example) taking provinces slowly. During the course of the game they've grown by about three provinces.

 

[IrishGirl]

You can do it in 2 easy steps:

1. Dismantle the HRE.
2. Declare war for Silesia.

Poland is one of the easiest countries to do #1 with.

How does a player dismantle the HRE?

 

[Vetgirig]

How does a player dismantle the HRE?

Ally Electors. Call them into an war and occupy the emperor and all other electors (you might have to declare several wars to get them all) and then press the actual button in the HRE to dismantle it.

 

[MateuszS]

I wouldn't say this is easy...

 

[Bouchart]

Become the emperor. Then you don't need to worry about the emperor being called into your wars.

 

[Badesumofu]

Weaken the Emperor repeatedly. First get strong enough to beat the Emperor + his allies. Then attack into the HRE. Crush the Emperor and peace him out for releasing nations like Tirol (no more gold mine for you, Austria). Then before peacing out out your primary target, attack into the HRE again. This will put you at war with Austria again. Then you can peace out your primary target for whatever and core the land (Emperor can't demand unlawful while you're at war). Crush the already defeated Emperor again and release more stuff.

Weak Emperor makes for easy conquest and subsequent dismantling when you get around to that.

Or just become Emperor, that can also work.

 

[IrishGirl]

My current game. Sweden is independent and allied to me, but got invaded by Russia (Russia just formed). I got pulled in as an ally and was doing okay - the warscore wasn't terribly low (around -10-ish) when suddenly Sweden peaces out giving Russia a couple of provinces INCLUDING ONE OF MINE! (Russian had literally just taken it with a wandering stack.) Thing is, I had Russia's manpower down to around 11k and I was winning most of the battles in southern Russia (I think I'd lost 3). Russia did have a large number of regiments in the area (something like 76) to my 60-ish. I was picking my battles and knocking their stacks back one by one. Then Sweden peaces out, using (in part) my land. It's only one poorly developed province, but still.

My allies include Austria (200 relationship, owes me 60 favors, holds Hungary in a PU/vassal), Spain, Silesia (trying to get a PU), and Sweden. France was my ally but dropped the alliance because I'm allied with Austria and Spain, who they rivaled.

Russia is allied with Georgia and Theodoro. Truce with Russia will expire in 9 years.

I have 67k max manpower and a force limit of 82. I'm at 12 on military tech and Russia is at 11 I'm about to grab 13. I have 63% improvement on Cavalry Combat Ability. But no matter what I anticipate doing with these numbers, Russia has that endless manpower.

If I do nothing, Russia will pick Sweden apart bit by bit - and I'll get called in with every bite. If I dissolve the alliance, Sweden will likely fall to Russia, allowing it to expand across northern Europe.

One possible suggestion I read was to make myself Emperor. Austria has 27000/6000/11000 in a standing army and 28k manpower. Hungary has 11000/9000/10000 and 48k manpower. So I don't think breaking my alliance with Austria is going to be an option.

Anyway, this is why I was asking about land in the HRE and getting control over it. My expansion options are getting limited with Russia to the east and the Ottomans to the south.

I supposed I could dump Spain or Austria or both as allies and just focus on France and go after the empire and split it between us. But what I really need is a way to take out Russia before the get any bigger.

 

[Blust]

Attack Russia with your allies before he attacks Sweden. Or break alliance with Sweden, wait for Russia to be busy with him then attack him. He have weak allies that will help to improve your warscore fast.

 

[Tarkilth]

They key to achieveing all things is to get stronger. Once your nation is strong enough you can go do whatever you liek to whomever you like. If the empire is too strong to take on as it is now, go North, East and South instead until Austria and its allies no logner scare you. There are other strategies liek mentioned above you can cheese out a dismantling of the empire, you can absolutely attack non-HRE allies or HRE members the Emperor WONT protect and then take the land from Silesia when they are non-cobelligerent but if you wish to avoid AE and large wars like that then it's less optimal. It can sometimes also be possible to threathen war for a province at a time form weak HRE princes. They may give in, not calculating the emperor and his allies' true strength. You'll suffer tons of AE from every province that way, but it will be ceded to you. Since you're allied to the Emperor, he may not demand it back from you, which is a nice bonus from beign allied to them.

 

[Badesumofu]

Well, first thing - if you can beat Russia in a war then it's better to be the one declaring it than have them invade Sweeden and not be war-leader. If you are a secondary in a war then ensuring that none of your provinces be occupied has to be a priority so the AI can't give them to your enemy. So I'd look at invading Russia - you have reconquest on them now as well.

Second - if you are outside the HRE and have territorial ambitions inside the HRE then being allied to the Emperor is not a good idea. You want to weaken the Emperor as much as you can so you can pick off minors with relative ease. Beware that doing this in a serious way will often result in a Protestant Empire as the Emperor is too weak to hold up when the League War fires. That may or may not be a concern for you. Looking at that map, I would suggest allying France if you can rather than Austria.

Also, what's up with that Livonian Order? They look like food to me.