How to succeed as the Teutonic Knights?

[Akintude]

I've just recently acquired this game, and tried an early game as Spain in 1492, but I think I may have screwed it up a bit, and I've always been a little obsessive-compulsive about starting at the earliest point possible in Paradox games, so I decided to try a new game in the GC as the Teutonic Knights. Now I know they probably aren't long-lived for a state (the description says they willingly subordinated themselves out of autonomy in 1525.) Are these guys extremely difficult to play as? Are there some sort of nasty, difficult-to-overcome events that represent their loss of independence in the future that I should be aware of. I like the fact that they start with a CoT, although it seems to be quite possibly the poorest one around--is that going to move someplace else in the future?

I'm not really sure how I should proceed, though, at least in terms of long-term goals. I'm certainly not looking to conquer the world or anything, just finish the game with an independent Teutonic Knighthood and maybe expand a little. Would it even be possible to get any explorers and/or conquistadors? The diplomatic sliders seem very favorable for expanding against other European powers - full Aristocracy sounds great for a cavalry-heavy army, though full serfdom isn't great for land morale...I suppose I'll crank up Quality and Land to compensate. What should be my first move? Beat up the Swedes and rob them of their Ugric-culture finnish territories? Gobble up Pskov? Expand into and annex German minors? Can I, as the Teuts, ever form Germany (does that even happen in this game?)

Also, what is generally the best way to conquer smaller nations? Should I attack and directly annex them (if they are only one province, that is?) Take a few provinces in each war until they are gone? Force-vassalize them and then eventually diplomatically annex them? (I'm not entirely sure how or even if this works, I've only heard of it.) Has anyone else had fun playing as the Teutonic Knights and have any helpful advice or interesting anecdotes they'd like to share?

 

[mike^_^]

they are fun to play as for a short while, i dont really have any tips, but i'd recommend playing as bradenburg if you want to form germany. now thats a fun game

 

[unmerged(33767)]

Unfortunately I don't have much time to write a lot, but I'll mention one important fact: the CoT moves to Danzig very soon after the game starts.

PS. In Vanilla the Teutonic Order is actually the Livonian Order and Prussia is the actual Teutonic Order. Just a historical fact

 

[TrojanAC]

This is one of the countries where i prefer to research landtech at the beginning till you reach lvl 7 to start assaults ... you should go to war with poland and make assaults when its possible to get an early peace agreement ... you should cut down poland or they will have much more troops than you can bear. your natural friend livonian order isn't as friendly as it occurs becuase they will go to wars they can't win very early, i prefer an alliance with denmark will help more at the beginning. at the moment there are no more things that comes to my brain so ... i'm ended

PS i've played MyMap

edit: spelling ... forget to read before posting

 

[unmerged(23148)]

Im trying to play TO atm with the WATK mod and it just dosent seem right. I lose every battle! My army of 30k was defeated by 3k Polish soldiers, then reduced to nothing by a 15K Polish Army. This cant be right??

edit: I started a game as Poland on very easy..same thing occurred, i lost every battle but it was the other way around. Anyone got this mod know why this could be?

 

[unmerged(54020)]

Maybe they were using more cavalry than you? And the miracoulos Thermopylae kinda battle happen from time to time, where you lose to a far inferior force.

A good strategy for the Teutonic Order? I've never tried playing them, so don't hold me up on anything I say.

However, I do know that Poland - together with Lithuania - is your greatest enemy in the early game. I would suggest getting into the danish alliance. Not only can they field some powerful armies together with Sweden, but they tend to go to war with the Russian nations on a daily basis. This means you can grab some of the northern colonies from Novgorod.

You say you don't want to be a superpower, but controlling the Baltic should be your main goal. Watch out, that you don't get surrounded by a powerful Poland, Russia or Sweden (or Denmark if they should come on top). Allying with one or more of these states wouldn't be a bad idea.

Hmm, all this got me fired up for an TO game.

 

[Akintude]

I was digging through the event file for the Teuts (why is their abbreviation LAT?) and I came across some sort of horrible earth-shaking event that seems to have them be absorbed by Poland or Lithuania or Russia or...something. I'm not exactly sure what the event does, but it seems to happen sometime in the early 16th century. Does anyone have experience with this event and know how to survive it? Does the "Die-Hard Independence" choice screw you over long-term?

 

[TrojanAC]

did you play a mod or did you play vanilla?

 

[Akintude]

did you play a mod or did you play vanilla?

Vanilla, 1.09

 

[Saulta]

I was digging through the event file for the Teuts (why is their abbreviation LAT?) and I came across some sort of horrible earth-shaking event that seems to have them be absorbed by Poland or Lithuania or Russia or...something. I'm not exactly sure what the event does, but it seems to happen sometime in the early 16th century. Does anyone have experience with this event and know how to survive it? Does the "Die-Hard Independence" choice screw you over long-term?

That is "the fate of the Teutonic order" event, were you get to choose if you want to give up every province, except Kurland, and create the nation of Courland, I think, At least it´s something like that.

 

[BlacksmithTony]

I'm currently playing a Tuetonic Order game (although I'm Prussia now via a custom event since I can't be Polands vassal), in AGCEEP, it's a fun country. I've got to 1524, and annexed Poland, Masovia and the Livonian Order.

I found I was able to defeat Poland and Lithuania a few times when just being allied to the Livonians. During the wars, Poland always seemed to head for Kurstin and sometimes Danzig or Prussia. They never took these provinces fast, so they lost a lot of men to attrition. I could usually, move troops into Polish lands without going near their armies, via Masovia. Then capture more of their provinces than they do of yours. If I remember correctly most of Poland is Minimal Forts in AGCEEP, whereas Teutonic Order has a number of Small Forts, which makes things a bit easier.

The Livonians usually tied up the Lithuanian forces for a while, otherwise the Lithuanians joined the attack on Prussia or Danzig. Also try to make a seperate peace with either Poland or Lithuania, then you can concentrate on the others.

I think I had 3 wars with that alliance, before I managed to vassalise Poland. Taking Polish provinces (after paying Lithuania out of the war), or feeding my vassal some Lithuanian provinces so the later wars would be a bit easier.

Probably not the best advice, especially if you're playing vanilla, but it worked well enough for me.

 

[Lord Finnish]

A good, experienced player could succeed as Teutons. But you must to move slowly. But always as teutons money is a problem i'd say.

 

[CatKnight]

Regarding the WATK scenario first: I survived and am doing very well as them. With Hungary and the Livonians in your alliance (initial startup), wait for them to DoW you...they will. Let Hungary chew up the south. Livonians will distract Lithuania. You do what you can to Poland and Masovia. It won't be a PRETTY war...but very winnable.

Hopping back to Vanila 1.09: the Teutons there are actually the Livonian Order. (The startup is... well, silly.) Your best bud is Prussia (the true Teutons) at game start.

There are two ways you can go: An early war with Poland/Lithuania is still a good idea, but only if you can get help. Together you and Prussia can fight a good delaying action, but Lith. is huge and Poland scrappy.

In a recent AAR stynlan abandoned 'Prussia' and allied with Poland/Lith. Not a bad idea....Prussia alone is very weak, and Lithuania in particular is willing to find you neat countries to conquer in Russia.

Speaking of Russia: Take out Pskov. They're in the way. Then, when Novgorod's hurt bad go to war with them. You're trying to get their capital, so remember that's a seperate war, or a seperate peace after Lith./Prussia/whoever you're friendly with has backed out. Novgorod is a CoT. Just remember Muscovy wants it to, and will eventually come calling.

Actually now that I've read the uber-event destroying the Order, I like the Russia-first option a lot. Here's why:

#The Fate of the Teutonic Order#

To fire: Poland, Sweden, Denmark and Russia must exist.
Courland must not exist. (Interesting idea: Can you relase Courland as a vassal? If so, problem solved.)

Option A: Polish-Swedish agreement gives two provinces to Swe, two to Poland, removes several cores, and removes your CoT. You become Courland, get 500 gold and 6 stability. If 'Prussia' has been destroyed you'll release it. Four events fire which I assume concern the reactions of the four powers to your breakup.

Option B: Russo-Danish agreement again triggers four events and removes a pack of cores. Two provinces become Russian, two Danish. Again you become Courland as above, and Prussia is released if needbe. No COT

Option C: Die-Hard Independence fires four events which I assume tell the four countries to get lost. You lose 3 stab and 500 gold as well as your CoT. You become Catholic, which at this point in the game given your location is annoying. You also gain Aristocracy +3, Innovative -3, Serfdom +3.

If you can destroy Poland or keep Russia from forming.... (it would take a bit of luck for Denmark or Sweden to be OUT by 1560).... event won't fire. Keeping Russia from forming is probably easier, especially if you can hold on to Pskov and Novgorod....but if you can hurt Poland badly enough, then Lith will diplovassalize and possibly diploannex it in time.