How to stop French from conquering Africa?

[Zhetone]

Seriously, this is very annoying. In every single game you get France and Aquitaine, at least in 867 start, invading North Africa and succeeding greatly. I wish this wouldn't happen but I feel like it does because Sunni doesn't help Shia and vice versa, so the Idrisid are left to suffer, or whichever heretic sect rules Africa next to them, with no help.

But it's anachronistic and silly to see France and Aquitaine invest so much in conquering Africa in this time frame, especially as they should be fighting each other or the Umayyad in Spain. Instead they conquer worthless land and make Jihads trigger early. Ridiculous.

 

[SovereignGrave]

I believe Christians can holy war Muslims from farther away than they can holy war other religions. I wonder if there's any particular reason why that's true, because it leads to weird stuff like this and France deciding it wants a piece of the Iberian pie despite not bordering and Andalusian rulers.

 

[Furleppe]

Yea, in all of my recent games Italy conquers almost all of North Africa (charlemagne start date). After a century or so I have Italian cultured and catholic Africa...

I know it's a sandbox game but it just bothers me lol

 

[Zhetone]

Yeah! They convert culture and religion of the places too. It's ridiculous to see these things yet it always, always, always happens. I use console to give the land back sometimes and it'll help, but then I look back and Africa is blue or purple again. If the thing about them being able to holy war farther away is true, it's ridiculous. I want this to stop and I can't believe Paradox haven't noticed the issue before

 

[GrandiSlayer]

Something was changed during the Reaper's Due Update, because I coulda swore that the AI did not holy war the North African Muslims, least not since the days of The Republic.

 

[Fishman786]

Seriously, this is very annoying. In every single game you get France and Aquitaine, at least in 867 start, invading North Africa and succeeding greatly. I wish this wouldn't happen but I feel like it does because Sunni doesn't help Shia and vice versa, so the Idrisid are left to suffer, or whichever heretic sect rules Africa next to them, with no help.

But it's anachronistic and silly to see France and Aquitaine invest so much in conquering Africa in this time frame, especially as they should be fighting each other or the Umayyad in Spain. Instead they conquer worthless land and make Jihads trigger early. Ridiculous.

1. Create a back-up 00_cb_types.txt or make a mod
2. ctrl-f for "HOLY WAR CB"
3. Scroll-down until you reach the 'ai_will_do' section for this CB
4. Paste the following text in just after "factor = 1".

        modifier = {    #try to guide the Franks in the right direction
            factor = 0
            ROOT = {
                OR = {
                    culture_group = central_germanic
                    AND = {
                        culture_group = latin
                        NOT = {
                            culture = norman
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
            kingdom = {
                OR = {
                    title = k_africa
                    title = k_mauretania
                }
            }
            FROM = {
                religion_group = muslim
            }
        }

This will completely ban any and all French and German Holy Wars in North Africa, unless the aggressor is Norman or if the North Africans are not Muslims (no mercy for the Aztec horde). For a slightly softer ban, change "factor = 0" to "factor = 0.1". I'm going to try and put in some exemptions for adjacent provinces and a time limit so wars can happen after 1300 myself, but this a simple way to stop annoying AI expansion.

Note: I haven't tested this yet so it might not work. Difficult to do if you aren't an AI though.

EDIT: whoops, left out a comment thing...

 

[Fishman786]

Something was changed during the Reaper's Due Update, because I coulda swore that the AI did not holy war the North African Muslims, least not since the days of The Republic.

I think it might have been Conclave or Horse Lords when they changed things, in one of those patches the AI was made much more aggressive.

 

[DukeDayve]

I've often seen Lombardy holy warring and taking North Africa since... forever really.

 

[Zhetone]

I've often seen Lombardy holy warring and taking North Africa since... forever really.

I never play Charlemagne so I haven't seen it. I did see Salerno conquer Tunis yesterday though

Also thanks Fishman for the coding stuff, I'll implement that and test it out.

 

[Fishman786]

I never play Charlemagne so I haven't seen it. I did see Salerno conquer Tunis yesterday though

Also thanks Fishman for the coding stuff, I'll implement that and test it out.

My mod also bans Italian and Lombard AIs from doing it as well btw. If the AI is in the Latin or German culture group, but not Norman culture, and if the target is in one of those two North African kingdoms and is Muslim, then there's a 0% chance of the AI using the CB.

 

[Zhetone]

They fixed HRE conquering africa every game only to have the French and Italians doing it now

 

[elvain]

apart from the CB I can see 2 major reasons why the North Africans fail to defend themselves against catholic Europeans:

1) The game doesn't reflect the fact that in early bookmarks (769 and 867) the region was much more developed than Europe and has declined in the 11th century.
In the early bookmarks:
- the technology of the region should be more advanced than Western Europe.
- there should be more (and more developed) settlements than in 1066 and later - in fact there should be only about one empty holding slot if any, so the local muslims should be able to raise better and larger armies.

But IMHO the main problem is that

2) North Africa lacks depth both map/territory-wise and in its internal working/mechanics.
before 11th century there was some kind of symbiosis between the nomads in the mainland and desert on one side and sedentary population in the coastal areas and mountains on the other. The coastal/mountain sedentaries held economic power while the nomads controled trade with the areas across the Sahara... and also provided military power to local dynasties.
a) map-wise - the de-jure duchies should be reconstructed so there are some coastal and some inland ones and if Catholic Europeans ever manage to conquer the coastal areas, the inland parts of North Africa should be able to generate enough power to strike back.
b) there should be some mechanics to improve the military power of nomadic tribes in the inland/desert or semi-desert parts of Africa. Also these should have some better bonuses for fighting in arid areas, especially in the desert, while European armies should suffer much more devastating attrition when they enter those arid inland areas of Africa.

EDIT: the map problem I tried to fix in my mod (Ibn Battuta's Legacy), but it isn't enough. It needs further changes.
The rest is obviously rather a task for PDS and obviously not an advice how to deal with it at the moment. But perhaps the CB changes together with using my mod might help a bit.

 

[Fishman786]

I messed up the kingdoms part of the code above. This version should work hopefully.

 

[Rubidium]

It happens in later dates as well (though in 1066, they will often take a detour to eat up the minor Spanish states as well). Blocking France (e.g. by taking Toulouse to cut off their sea access) just means one of the Italian republics takes it instead.

 

[Zhetone]

Updated my files. When I play again tonight I'll see if it works right

 

[SovereignGrave]

It happens in later dates as well (though in 1066, they will often take a detour to eat up the minor Spanish states as well). Blocking France (e.g. by taking Toulouse to cut off their sea access) just means one of the Italian republics takes it instead.

Or the Holy Roman Empire. I've seen the Kaiser take Mallorca and then start expanding into North Africa because he's now in Holy War range.

 

[StarSword]

I believe Christians can holy war Muslims from farther away than they can holy war other religions.

More specifically, holy war is a valid casus belli over up to two sea zones as long as either the attacker or defender is a Muslim (I once saw the Moors jump past the Frenchies and conquer a county in Brittany). Everyone else has to wait until somebody has unlocked great holy wars.

 

[Simmy93]

Tell them there's no wine.

 

[elvain]

More specifically, holy war is a valid casus belli over up to two sea zones as long as either the attacker or defender is a Muslim (I once saw the Moors jump past the Frenchies and conquer a county in Brittany). Everyone else has to wait until somebody has unlocked great holy wars.

I think this is in order to have Crusades targeting the Holy land

 

[stratigo]

Yea, in all of my recent games Italy conquers almost all of North Africa (charlemagne start date). After a century or so I have Italian cultured and catholic Africa...

I know it's a sandbox game but it just bothers me lol

Italy makes a bit more sense in this regard.