How to Start a War with Ming as Manchu

[MobiusXIV]

So apparently, all I need left to form Qing is Beijing. It's on my border. I'm getting excited. However, I'm having a cold war going on. I'll list my predicament so it's easier to read:

Ming Army 45,000 vs 30,000 Manchu Army (Ming Force Limits 36 vs 25 Manchu, so we're both over)

Ming Allies: Korea and Hsenwi
Manchu Allies: Korea, Miao, Khem

None of my allies are willing to go to war with Ming. I feel like if I could just get Ming to go to war with me, I'd be good, but it's really annoying not having Korea's help.

Anyone have any ideas how to get this war started? All I want (so far) is Beijing to get the achievement, but this game has gone quite well and would love to keep it going further. Still, Beijing is the main goal. One war. Just need to win it.

 

[CzechKronner]

Take loans and spam mercs.

 

[ashmizen]

Take loans and spam mercs.

45 vs 30?

This should be an easy win for Manchu - Ming armies are terribly ineffective when the temple faction is not in power (and they usually are not), and Ming manpower is so poor that they won't recover from a loss of their main force.

Just try to fight during or right after another war - Ming's manpower is poor, and their land so vast, that if they were fighting in the south or west you can siege and take a bunch of provinces before they even arrive. Then just play defensively until you can divide and conquer their army, which is too big to fit in supply limits in one stack. Ether let attrition weaken it, or destroy isolated armies.

You should have a military tech edge, along with Ming's combat penalty, and in a defensive fight with good terrain, your 30 can probably beat 40. Although with some luck you should be able to avoid fighting Ming's entire army at the same time.

 

[AlphaSonic]

Just wait a massive rebelion.

 

[Russkish]

Their arimes are really weak in the game. Don't be scared. I just won 10vs20 war in 1.7.1.

 

[Junuxx]

What the rest said.

Position your armies at the Korean border. If they honor Ming's call to arms, swoop in and wipe their army before they can join up with Ming's.

 

[indika_tates]

Declare war on game start. Recruit horse archers until your force limit. Play with ming forces into your territory and let them die by attrition. Use 2-3 units to loot ming territories constantly. You will be rich so soon. Other tribes and neighbors will declare war on it as soon as Ming burn its manpower. You can wait sometimes for occupied cities to turn into yours specially if you want to form Qing. One of the requeriments is their capital and you can't annex it. A solution is after the first war, release the northern vassal and return cores to it.

Manchu IMO is an easy start. I don't know if in the new patch this strategy is valid, but the AI is very dumb when managing Ming because they go to war without changing to temple faction.

 

[cahtush]

Also, make sure you don't take too many provinces from them at once, it can be tempting because they're so cheap.
I may have done that and ended up with over half a million worth of rebels.

 

[indika_tates]

Also, make sure you don't take too many provinces from them at once, it can be tempting because they're so cheap.
I may have done that and ended up with over half a million worth of rebels.

It depends on your goals. I prefer, on the first war against Ming just getting two provinces of two vassals. The center one (Xi) and the northern one which name I don't remember now. nd as soon as you can, a Zhou core. You don't want rebels to break Ming into factions unless you can vasalize Ming. As soon as Ming get an ally, you attack that ally (Korea mainly tends to ally and you have a CB against them). That way you break the truce. Crush ming once again, and in the peace offer you return all the cheapest cores to one of your vassals. You avoid a coalition and you can start wars with another neighbours without having to deal with another tribes. End the wars as soon as you can. The earlier you finish, the earlier you can declare war again. Ming will break into pieces sooner or later.

You have another option that is annexing all the provinces you can and release it as a vassal but I don't like it because as long as you avoid coalitions, better. As a tribe, NEVER spend ADM points to core a province. That extreme valuable ADM points are for ideas or tech. I suggest to spend it on the group idea that reduces future ADM tech cost. Think that Russia, will be a problem sooner or later and you have to deal with it. The only way is to keep a decent tech rate.

I haven't played AoW and I hope this strategy can be useful.

 

[Hirron]

I just won war against Ming + Korea + Oriat (Conquered about half of Mongolia in previous war.) with 36k soldiers. A few tips

. Ming's stacks are paper tigers. As a general rule you can fight effectively at about 75% as many men. Equal numbers gives a crushing victory
. Follow history and loot the Ming. Loot them a lot. Between Canton and capital there is about 200g/6 months any you can loot in circles thanks to massive size of Ming.
. At start of war ambush Korea and use force concentration to kill their army. If they mix with Ming's army it is a significant boost to Ming's combat effectiveness.
. Don't be afraid to let them siege a province. Controling Manchuria gives them a lot of ground they need to cover before they can actually do any harm.