How to quickly explain HRE to 12-13 years old kids ?

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Henry IX

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Thanks. When I compared what you said to what I planned, I figured out that I was up for countless losses of time, so I shall definitely take example from what you wrote. This last minute idea will probably save me a lot of trouble. So I don't regret my insomnia.

Every student/trainee teacher I have ever supervised has made the same mistake. After years at university it takes a while to get used to delivering lessons to the correct depth. 13 year olds =/= university students. Always remember to stay focused on what you want them to learn and use that to guide the lesson.
 

Pelthis

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Well, to give some feedback, I managed to do the whole explanation according to your plan in 12 minutes. Then a kid asked me who was Charlemagne. And he was not joking. The only think he knew about him was "oh wait I know isn't he the guy who invented school ?"
 

gagenater

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It's a bit late now, but I was able to do this with my own 12 year old son by explaining that it was kind of like the EU is now, but only for Germany and some adjacent areas. Each little area was still it's own 'place' with it's own leadership, but you didn't need a passport to travel around, your money was good in all the different places, and you had some legal protections that transferred across the area. Because it lasted a lot longer than the EU has so far, there was a lot of fighting that took place, sometimes between places in the HRE, and sometimes not. Some of the places were just cities, some were huge countries in their own right, and some of them were owned by the church, so saying anything about the individual states in the HRE gets really complex really fast - leave out anything more than a 1-2 sentence mention of this unless it's important for later lessons.
 

Abdul Goatherd

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Well, to give some feedback, I managed to do the whole explanation according to your plan in 12 minutes. Then a kid asked me who was Charlemagne. And he was not joking. The only think he knew about him was "oh wait I know isn't he the guy who invented school ?"

Smart kid. :)
 

Minodrin

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It's a bit late now, but I was able to do this with my own 12 year old son by explaining that it was kind of like the EU is now, but only for Germany and some adjacent areas. Each little area was still it's own 'place' with it's own leadership, but you didn't need a passport to travel around, your money was good in all the different places, and you had some legal protections that transferred across the area. Because it lasted a lot longer than the EU has so far, there was a lot of fighting that took place, sometimes between places in the HRE, and sometimes not. Some of the places were just cities, some were huge countries in their own right, and some of them were owned by the church, so saying anything about the individual states in the HRE gets really complex really fast - leave out anything more than a 1-2 sentence mention of this unless it's important for later lessons.

Yep, that's pretty much what the HRE was. The EU of the medieval and renaissance age. Because it lacks a coherent central leadership, there's lots of compromises and incomplete plans that makes it difficult to comprehend, but mostly the entities there ruled themselves but there were some central rules coming from the empire itself, just like today.
 

Pyoro

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To young kids, the HRE is imo best taught by showing them one of those "Flickenteppich" pictures and go "there, this mess is the HRE". It's nicely visual and basically tells you everything you'd want to know ^^
For Swiss Independence, you probably need to somehow explain the importance of cities and how they could act independently, but then you have "city-Kantons" so maybe it's something they can sort of understand anyway ...
 

bz249

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To young kids, the HRE is imo best taught by showing them one of those "Flickenteppich" pictures and go "there, this mess is the HRE". It's nicely visual and basically tells you everything you'd want to know ^^
For Swiss Independence, you probably need to somehow explain the importance of cities and how they could act independently, but then you have "city-Kantons" so maybe it's something they can sort of understand anyway ...

The way how Switzerland functions is not that far away how the HRE was... sure it is much more streamlined and efficient, but Switzerland is remarkably decentralized.
 

Palatinus Germanicus

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If it were me teaching my kid:

1.) Describe the fall of the fall of the Western RE, in general terms. And the surviving ERE.

2.) Rise of the Franks -- a Germanic people. Karl/Charlemagne's ancestors actually built most of the
Carolingian Empire, he just put on the finishing touches.

3.) Family drama with Karl's brother, and his mysterious death. Mommy is suspect. Karl thus inherit's Pepin the short's former realm.

4.) Briefly describe the Germanic Lombard invasion of Italy. 2 Germanic kingdoms, w/ Muslim invaders creeping in from the south. Alliance seems like a good idea.

5.) ^This was to be achieved by Karl marrying a Lombard princess.

6.) Marriage didn't work out, and she fled back to Italy. But, treacherously, she took one of the young Karling pretenders with her. So what are they planning to do? Plot to take Karl down, from beyond his borders? Obviously this can't be tolerated. Invade Lombardy.

7.) Bishop of Rome, now calling himself the Pope (a king-tier title), and seeking to egregiously extort all of western Europe for many centuries, is spooked by Karl's rapid expansion & the fact that he's now on the Pope's doorstep.

8.) Seeking personal gain (lands in Italy) and making Karl morally unable to do anything but be magnanimous to the Pope, Bishop of Rome goes for max flattery by declaring Karl emperor of the Romans. This was made easier by the fact that the ERE was ruled by a woman at the time (title was considered vacant, according to them in the west).

9.) Ploy actually works, and the Germanic Franks actually start to believe that they are 'Latin' over time. The 'new emperors of Rome', as it were.

10.) Karl dies, his realm splits.

11.) His heirs die, more realm splitting.

12.) West of the Rhine (areas that actually were conquered by Rome), they're really taking this "we're the Romans" thing seriously. Next ting you know, they're taking vulgar Latin, and forming a new bastardized version of it, and it sounds absolutely silly.

13.) East of the Rhine, where they were not conquered by the Romans, no such silliness is being entertained. "We're German, and we're proud of it".

14.) ~200 years after Karl's preposterous receiving of fellatio crowning, new consolidation efforts are sought to reunite realms, along the cultural lines that have evolved since his time.

15.) Now that the Pope is fully embedded throughout all the realms of western Europe, and his cult is in total psychological control of everyone, the only way to really do this, is in concert/cooperation with him, the Pope.

16.) German kings manage to fight for about this much territory (show map of ca. 1000 A.D. HRE), destroy the kingdom of Burgundy once and for all, crusade a little into the Slavic lands to the E and NE (forceful missionary work, you might say). And w/ Papal collusion, they divided Italy among themselves.

17.) Over time, Pope wants even more of Italy, and this led to funny things like HREmperor being excommunicated, having to kneel in a blizzard for days, etc.

18.) As for the core realms, along w/ the peripheral realms of the HRE, the Reich is just too culturally diverse to be fully centralized. So explain that the HRE is really more of a confederation under an over-arching crown, than a 'nation state'.

19.) Over time, the non-Germans would be shed from the empire. As this occurred, centralization was therefore gradually able to increase. Austria (Habsburgs) becomes the driving force for a more centralized 'Grossdeutschland'... a state of all ethnic Germans, unified & centralized.

20.) Austria was Germany before Germany was Germany. Modern Germans know this, and pay tribute to Austria by their selection of the tune for their national anthem.

21.) Prussia begins to rise (another topic/lesson perhaps), and has other plans.

22.) French revolution, and then later Napoleon begins to rise. He also, has other plans.

23.) Austria/HRE crushed, and it's dismantled. Now all the German minor states are up for grabs. The game's afoot; who's finally going to create a German nation state?

24.) Spoiler; it was Prussia. Of course, Prussia was really Brandenburg. Brandenburg... re-branded. Because when you're a margraviate (glorified sheriff) that was usually a vassal of Bohemia, and given electorate status just to vote for Bohemia, and you're always remembered as the 'sandbox' of the HRE, a den of bandits & robber knights, yeah it's best to get a PR makeover. How about the legendary, fabled Teutonic knights? (New) "Prussians". Absolutely, that's who they are now. But give them credit, they built one hell of a military tradition, which is how they managed to actually pull it all off by 1871.

25.) Everybody joins the new Germany, except Austria... which still had plenty of other realms which were not ethnic German.

26.) After WWI, A-H gets broken apart, so how they're on their own (the former core realms of the Habpbpbsburgs). Well, unless you wanna hear about WWII, I guess. But that's enough lesson for one day, son. Go do your chores, and then we'll hit the gym. We don't have to worry about any of this old-world crap anyway, you know. There's reasons we left in the first place. But at least now you begin to understand.
 

Pyoro

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I'm a bit confused so many focus so much on Karl. I really don't see how it adds much to understanding the internal mechanics of the HRE. Maybe some of the borders and why the Big Guy was called an Emperor and not King, but I don't see it as that important. Oh, sure, it's basically the start of everything, but sometimes it's not how things start out that matters all that much (except perhaps establishing the stem duchies, which "explains" the whole elective emperor thing).
 

Fishman786

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The Holy Roman Empire was a strange sort of empire that used to exist in central Europe and Italy in medieval times. It was made up of lots of little countries and principalities. Some of them were run by the church, some were city-states, some had the right to get together to decide amongst themselves who the next emperor would be whenever the current one died. Despite the name, it had very little to do with the Romans at all, in fact most of it was in Germany. It lasted for about a thousand years in one form or another, which is pretty surprising given that absolutely none of it made a lick of sense whatsoever.
 

TheFlemishDuck

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It was a feudal federation with a monarch ellected from and by powerfull lords.