How to prevent the rise of Socialism

[gnosticadam]

I am currently playing Vicky Revolutions as the US, and can't seem to prevent a Socialist government from taking over in the mid 1850's.
Anyone got any tips on manouvers to prevent this from occuring? I have been trying to keep the Whigs and Democrats in power so that my Capis can do the infrastructure building, but suddenly half my pops have gone socialist.

 

[OHgamer]

How often are you holding elections? In every election, the losing side gets a spike in MIL of about 0.75 at 50 plurality. So if you are constantly holding elections (this is in Revolutions) you are likely causing yourself alot of additional militancy hits you do not need.

Also, how much are you taxing/tariffing your POPs. With larger nations, it is fairly easy to get POPs mellowed out so that socialism does not appeal to them. Check my AAR on Prussia. Yet, it is Prussia with the VIP mod, but there are good tips for all new players. Don't overtax your pops. Maximize exports, as that is the basis for POP income.

In the end, if you are dealing with a lot of militant POPs (and rapid growth of socialism is a clear sign of POP militancy) it is probably too late except to simply slash taxes/tariffs, put troops in provinces with high militancy, and just wait for the POPs to calm down.

 

[gnosticadam]

Hi OHGamer, thank you for your excellent and fast answer. You are a real credit to these forums.
The only thing I don't understand is the fact that most of my POPs who went Socialist are at 0-3 militancy and the decreasing on average around -.30
My highest militant group of POPs are mostly minority conservative laborers and farmers at around 5-6, they are decreasing as well.
Something tells me the issue is something other than militancy.
I have had only one extra non scheduled election and that was in the late 1830's. I believe my plurality is in the mid 30's.
Could the answer be that my tariffs are quite high? They are maxed out on my Liberal Whig government which I believe is protectionist.
Thank you for any additional insight. I did read your Prussian AAR and learned quite a bit from it.

 

[shasla6]

I don't believe that socialism is linked to militancy per se, just economic status. Remember that it is not an "extremist" ideology, but its own ideological pair along with communism. But I could be wrong.

 

[OHgamer]

Hi OHGamer, thank you for your excellent and fast answer. You are a real credit to these forums.
The only thing I don't understand is the fact that most of my POPs who went Socialist are at 0-3 militancy and the decreasing on average around -.30
My highest militant group of POPs are mostly minority conservative laborers and farmers at around 5-6, they are decreasing as well.
Something tells me the issue is something other than militancy.
I have had only one extra non scheduled election and that was in the late 1830's. I believe my plurality is in the mid 30's.
Could the answer be that my tariffs are quite high? They are maxed out on my Liberal Whig government which I believe is protectionist.
Thank you for any additional insight. I did read your Prussian AAR and learned quite a bit from it.

tariffs may be playing a role. So does whatever the issues are for the POPs - if their primary issue is one that socialists party has, the POP may adopt the ideology, especially if you have higher plurality levels.

And socialism does become a "base" ideology during the course of the game, so that if for example you create new craftsmen POPs from farmer/labourer POPs after ~1850, some of them may very well adopt socialism as their base ideology, and that becomes very difficult to remove unless they have very low militancy and low consciousness - and high tariffs raises consciousness.

 

[gnosticadam]

Darn. So there is really no way, even long term, to change Socialists back into Liberals?

 

[RELee]

Darn. So there is really no way, even long term, to change Socialists back into Liberals?

Now, I'll be asking you, laddy. Why on God's green Earth would a good Socialist want to be giving back his nice, "free", government handouts? It wouldn't be natural would it now?

But, seriously, aren't most of the socialists in the craftsmen and laborer pops? Using wealthy voting rights ought to keep the liberals in power unless your clerks and capitalist turn on you too. Right?

I'm just taking a guess here. I've never had a major socialist issue rise up in my nations...yet.

 

[CCA]

Now for the flip side of the question.

How do you get a socialist government into power.

 

[Dietmar1982]

Now for the flip side of the question.

How do you get a socialist government into power.

overtaxing

 

[Lord KhaZimir]

I don't see any problem having a socialist government! (in vicky revolutions)

I can build factories WHERE i desire, WHEN i desire.

Ok, capitalists don't build railroads for free but that's theonly big annoyance...

 

[RELee]

overtaxing

*BRACK!*

"Sorry, Hans, wrong guess. Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy, where the stakes are double and the scores really change?"

Just kidding. My experience, in the early game at least, is that overtaxing only results in getting a predominantly liberal population instead of a socialist one. The experiments and experience of most is that closing RGOs results in socialistic behavior in pops rather than overtaxing them. Or maybe it is a combination of both. Whatever. I just know that overtaxing alone will not do it. Perhaps around 1880 or later it might, when most of you population is already liberal to begin with. Yeah. That's probably it.

 

[Surgünoglu]

I'd like to second RELee's observation.

Unemployment, for me, has produced socialists who otherwise would have been conservatives or, presumably, liberals.

Overtaxation produces liberals for me, too.

 

[Dietmar1982]

I'd like to second RELee's observation.

Unemployment, for me, has produced socialists who otherwise would have been conservatives or, presumably, liberals.

Overtaxation produces liberals for me, too.

I stand corrected.

Maybe it's just because i all most never have a socialist party in power. And when i do, it's very late game.
By that time I don't have any people working in the RGO's anyway. And not enough people to fill my factories. so Unemployment is not really an option.

 

[unmerged(77251)]

Depends on when you're playing; until the late 80's (1880), overtaxing will most probably turn your pops into liberals. After that deadline, everyone *just magically* turns socialist. Notice that in the 30s, you will also get some fascists.

As of the beginning question, I don't see the point to prevent socialism from raising besides when one is really trying a WC. Turning socialist gives you +25 plurality, which in most cases allows to really get ahead of the US and attract loads of immigrants. And state_capitalism allows to quickly industrialize yourself. So keeping them into power can be a nice boost to your economy. Once the millions of immigrants are all nicely working for your personal enrichment, taxes can be cut to get back some liberals with pro_military (if you've good parties) or a least letting you cut the social spendings.

 

[Corbett]

To my understanding, cutting off all national exports is easier than shutting down all RGOs and factories but is just as effective.

 

[Kagernaut]

Well you could just close down RGOs by state, and remember which states you affected.

 

[RELee]

I'd like to second RELee's observation.

Thanks. These days, I often wonder if what I'm writing is actually a memory or just another incident of dementia. :rofl:

 

[gnosticadam]

Thanks for all the insight fellas. I am almost sold on the problem being too high tariffs, I will experiment and bit and let you know what happened in my restart.
My aim to is quelch socialism in a democratic government, I'm going to muck around until I decide its not possible......

 

[Oerdin]

*BRACK!*
My experience, in the early game at least, is that overtaxing only results in getting a predominantly liberal population instead of a socialist one. The experiments and experience of most is that closing RGOs results in socialistic behavior in pops rather than overtaxing them. Or maybe it is a combination of both. Whatever. I just know that overtaxing alone will not do it. Perhaps around 1880 or later it might, when most of you population is already liberal to begin with. Yeah. That's probably it.

It's expensive to do but if you stop exporting then pops don't get any income and they turn socialist very quickly.