How to play a very tall lubeck

[Slavv]

How do you open up as lubeck? I assume it's simply ally some of the bigger nations, take OPMs in the lubeck node and work towards bigger allies so I can take on denmark? Is there a proper opening/starting idea groups or no?

Thanks!

 

[Inquisitor Silenus]

That's basically what I did in my last Lubeck game, yes. IHere's my experiences:

A friendship with the Emperor is very valuable as for any HRE game, since unlawful territory is annoying, and doubly so for the high-development provinces you're going for. It's also useful because Denmark will very likely come knocking at some point, and when it does, you really want the emperor to help you out. It's also a great opportunity to take a province or two. Keep a very close eye on the Swedes. Muscovites may or may not be a factor in your neck of the woods.

I would think about Brandenburg and the Teutons, since both are fairly close to you, but far enough away that they aren't relevant to your initial expansion: Consider allying one and beating up the other, depending on whether your interests lie on the seas or inland Germany (A maritime Lubeck should beat up the Teutons for Danzig at the minimum, while a more land-based, german Lubeck should probably aim to take Berlin). Be mindful that both are stronger than you at game start, but should be relatively equal after your initial burst of expansion. Be careful that you don't let either consume Pomerania if you plan to go that way, as at least Brandenburg gets a mission I think. If your chosen target is on the business end of a nasty war, be opportunistic and swoop in (this applies doubly to Denmark, but don't get caught alone in a war with them).

Also, the fate of the HRE opms are important to you, so keep an eye on them. I lost a lot of trade power when Frankfurt got gobbled up, for example.

I went for Economic-Defensive, since early morale is wonderful, and for a tall game Economic can't be beat. I also found myself being sieged fairly often due to my lack of defensive depth, so Defensive helps keep the forts up. Trade is nice as well, but I'd take that later when you have more weight to throw around.

Finally, there's a neat event that happens sometimes when you elect a new ruler while at 0 or low stability (sometimes? I don't think it always triggers), which allows you to pick between three pretty awesome 10 year modifiers. Worth knowing about.

 

[Slavv]

That's basically what I did in my last Lubeck game, yes. IHere's my experiences:

A friendship with the Emperor is very valuable as for any HRE game, since unlawful territory is annoying, and doubly so for the high-development provinces you're going for. It's also useful because Denmark will very likely come knocking at some point, and when it does, you really want the emperor to help you out. It's also a great opportunity to take a province or two. Keep a very close eye on the Swedes. Muscovites may or may not be a factor in your neck of the woods.

I would think about Brandenburg and the Teutons, since both are fairly close to you, but far enough away that they aren't relevant to your initial expansion: Consider allying one and beating up the other, depending on whether your interests lie on the seas or inland Germany (A maritime Lubeck should beat up the Teutons for Danzig at the minimum, while a more land-based, german Lubeck should probably aim to take Berlin). Be mindful that both are stronger than you at game start, but should be relatively equal after your initial burst of expansion. Be careful that you don't let either consume Pomerania if you plan to go that way, as at least Brandenburg gets a mission I think. If your chosen target is on the business end of a nasty war, be opportunistic and swoop in (this applies doubly to Denmark, but don't get caught alone in a war with them).

Also, the fate of the HRE opms are important to you, so keep an eye on them. I lost a lot of trade power when Frankfurt got gobbled up, for example.

I went for Economic-Defensive, since early morale is wonderful, and for a tall game Economic can't be beat. I also found myself being sieged fairly often due to my lack of defensive depth, so Defensive helps keep the forts up. Trade is nice as well, but I'd take that later when you have more weight to throw around.

Finally, there's a neat event that happens sometimes when you elect a new ruler while at 0 or low stability (sometimes? I don't think it always triggers), which allows you to pick between three pretty awesome 10 year modifiers. Worth knowing about.

As a republic, aren't you only allowed to own about 20 provinces? If I conquer down to Teutonic Order, won't I eventually hit my cap while I expand into the lubeck node?

 

[Vetgirig]

As a republic, aren't you only allowed to own about 20 provinces? If I conquer down to Teutonic Order, won't I eventually hit my cap while I expand into the lubeck node?

As a merchant republic you may own 20 core provinces and unlimited territory provinces.

 

[Shatter12]

As a merchant republic you may own 20 core provinces and unlimited territory provinces.

But doesn't that contribute to over extension?

 

[browd]

You still core the non-stated territories (so they have territorial cores).

 

[Mork]

But doesn't that contribute to over extension?

He is talking about State versus Territory provinces.

 

[Ironside121]

But doesn't that contribute to over extension?

You can have them as cores, but only 75% autonomy, because some idiot at Paradox thought you could make enough money off trade as it is, without actually being able to influence the goods made upstream..

MR's are garbage at the moment.

 

[Mrkew]

You can have them as cores, but only 75% autonomy, because some idiot at Paradox thought you could make enough money off trade as it is, without actually being able to influence the goods made upstream..

MR's are garbage at the moment.

You can still have trade companies.

 

[Casko]

You can have them as cores, but only 75% autonomy, because some idiot at Paradox thought you could make enough money off trade as it is, without actually being able to influence the goods made upstream..

MR's are garbage at the moment.

to be honest Lubeck is one of the few nations that do not get hurt too much by the limit as you actually can go colonize relatively easily to new world. and you do have a lots of OPM's to take into your trade league around the HRE.
Though I do admit that using a mod to remove the limit is more than helpful...

 

[Iferius]

Your mid-game goal: You take the 20 best trade provinces in all nearby/downstream provinces. You might want to move your trade capital to London or Holland for the end node. In those 20 provinces, you build a trade post and trade buildings. The province with the second best trade modifier in the node goes to a trade city, unless it's in an OPM that is already willing to be in your trade league (like Hamburg). In nodes that get rich from the trade you pull, you form a March - pick a nation with great military ideas, vassalize or release it and feed it up to the point where it can retain the march bonuses. Send officers to the march. Brandenburg or Sweden is great for this, but in a suboptimal location and large. Picardy/Hainaut (French Ducal ideas) can be picked off when everyone dogpiles Burgundy, and is in a great location to feed the Channel node provinces.

Meanwhile, you want to go colonizing, and you preferably want as many 10 province colonial nations in every colonial region as you can get. To do this, you get yourself some colonizer vassals (Leon is excellent) and grant them your newly made colonies before establishing a nation of your own. As soon as a colonial nation is formed under your or your vassals control, subsidise it to make it colonize on its own behalf. When a subject colonizer has made a few colonial nations for you in regions you have a colonial nation of your own, you integrate the vassal for double colonial nation bonuses and far lower independence desire. If you do this well enough, you can get enough merchants to work in every trade node in the game.

 

[Bibor]

As Lubeck, the downside of Denmark is a lot of its provinces produce fish. The upsides are: outside of HRE, is mostly grassland for development and galleys are enough for naval warfare.
I would prefer snaking my way on the coast to Netherlands and getting most of my cores there. Most provinces in Netherlands also produce cloth which reduces development cost even further, and Lubeck node can steer to English Channel.
The downside of English channel is that you cannot completely control it as well as you can Lubeck, so eventually you'll probably also want to take a few provinces in England.
I would be picky which 20 provinces to take, probably only the estuaries and important centers of trade in Denmark, Northern Germany and the British isles.

 

[Slavv]

So I'm allowed to have more than 20 provinces under my control. fully cored and all, but a a merchant republic, I'm only allowed to have 20 of those provinces stated, right? Theoretically I could hold 20 states anywhere, and then blob uncontrollably as I wish?

Also, are merchant republics allowed to colonize normally? Their colonies don't count towards any province max, right?

 

[browd]

Not 20 states -- 20 stated provinces. So if you have a state with 3 provinces, where one province is highly developed and attractive, and the other two provinces are trash, you are chewing up 3 of your stated province limit for one great province. Instead, you will want to avoid taking the two trash provinces altogether, or sell them off to a vassal, or otherwise get rid of them to free up your stated province capacity to focus on only the most valuable provinces.

 

[AngelRay]

MR's are garbage at the moment.

I played Venice for the first time this week. I can only say: sadly yes. I had to become a monarchy to have a fun game :/.

 

[Grand Historian]

@Dakkadakka127 Weren't you doing a tall Lubeck campaign? Perhaps you can contribute?

 

[ShoGuL]

You can have them as cores, but only 75% autonomy, because some idiot at Paradox thought you could make enough money off trade as it is, without actually being able to influence the goods made upstream..

MR's are garbage at the moment.

MR's are one of the most satisfying (and by far the richest) government forms. You just need to focus most of your power base overseas.

 

[Ironside121]

Yeah guys saying MR's should be forced into colonizing or India isn't really a good argument.

Honestly they don't come with Colonization ideas so Colonial Nations like Spain or Portugal will end up making more off trade because they can make more colonies. Oftentimes the trade you'll make early and mid game won't be worth the hit you take to taxation and production. I've played maybe 4 Venice games and stuck with the Republic, and a few more as a Monarchy, I've always ended up richer as the Monarchy or a different Republic- and I mean huge differences, especially in trade income. They're stupid limitations.

Yes, I used trade posts, I used vassals and their trade power, the extra merchant is pretty helpful, 33% caravan power isn't half bad either, but the faction system and that damn limit to stated territories is freaking annoying.

But while I'm here with people who are better with MR's than myself- does the goods produced bonus apply to your own provinces, unlike TCs?

 

[macd21]

The limit to the number of provinces is fine. You may eventually want to change government type once you get too big. If for some reason you're adamant about sticking with MR to the end, you could always make a few vassals and feed them - use them as your attack dogs.

The only real problem with MRs is the faction system. Because it came out in a DLC before the estates, Paradox feel that they can't mess with it - people paid for it, and would in theory be irate if something they paid for was scrapped. Mind you, I paid for it and I'd be happy if it was scrapped in favour of something better.

 

[Dakka]

@Dakkadakka127 Weren't you doing a tall Lubeck campaign? Perhaps you can contribute?

Hard to say without knowing what DLCs he has. Mare Nostrum is almost a necessity to play a tall MR well. I’m going to assume he already owns CS or else he wouldn’t be going tall at all.

So to OP, do you own Mare Nostrum? Res Publica is also good to own so you can create trading posts. How tall is “super tall”?