What is the maximum amount of collaboration government you do as Germany?
Is it better to collab France to max or collab also Belgium an Netherlands?
Is it better to collab France to max or collab also Belgium an Netherlands?
How to maximise collaboration government as Germany
- Thread starter Eisscrat
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I don't know the maximum you can do, but I usually do one collaboration mission on Poland, France and maybe the UK if you have time.
Don't bother with Belgium or Netherlands since they're small countries.
Don't bother with Belgium or Netherlands since they're small countries.
This strongly depends on whether you follow a real longterm strategy:
- more invest in the beginning, lowering your overall production targets for a way larger payoff in the long run
- emphasis on preparing for war to the end of better early success and having only lower growth in production afterwards
Personally, when playing GER i only do one collab in POL, FRA and USSR to keep things somewhat realistic.
However, everything is better than AI GER that has constant fullscale revolutions in all occupied territory. I see no improvement although it has been reported multiple times and for months by now.
Oh yeah, forgot about the USSR. definitely do one or two missions for them and the USA.
For context, for western Europe the main reason for collabs in Europe is to get more access to factories and to help reduce resistance in those countries so I only really focus on the larger industrial nations.
As a rule i can generally leave Europe on the lowest garrison setting without any real issues, occasionally if someone runs a resistance mission I might have to increase it temporarily for a state.
In my Germany playthroughs I generally rush the first collab in Poland then do one in France while I build up my number of civilian factories so I can afford to do the second collab in Poland and still be building other things.
Depending in how many civilian factories I have after the second Poland collab and how close I am to going to war I sometimes do a 3rd in Poland and then go straight for second in France which I make sure will be finished before they capitulate. If I am close war I go straight for the second in France.
In short minimum 2 in Poland, Minimum 2 in France, 3rd in Poland if I have the opportunity.
As soon as I have finished the 2nd collab in France I start work on Britain.
I always get 1 collab, I aim to get 2 but that depends on British resistance. If I can do an early sealion I stick with 1, if I need to whittle them down a bit I aim for 2 and may even hold off on actual capitulation until I finish the second.
I never bother with the rest if Europe as those countries are too small to bother with and if you use the focus you can just puppets the low countries and Norway and then you can ask them for garrison help which usually solves your garrison manpower issues.
Having taken over over mainland Europe I usually double my factory count straight away due to the collaborations and with Britain taken also I have a huge industrial base to take on Russia.
As an additional note I never do divisions of Poland. Not least because Russia doesn't actually help with the invasion but because there is no need and with high collab that is extra factories and resources you can use to outproduce your enemy.
After Britain i focus on Russia with a different reason which is you need to reduce their capitulation threshold.
Without collabs in Russia you need to go past the Urals to win which is almost impossible as the supply situation past Moscow is almost none existent. With 3 collabs taking Moscow usually ends the war and factories gained are just a bonus as I usually have more factories than I actually have things I need to build with them.
At this point I am just messing around with production..I have researched the next airframe or tank chassis so I start a line with 150 factories to get that new model in the field quickly etc. Don't really need to do it but why not?!
Once Russia is done I obviously go for 3 collabs in the US just because, what else are my spies going to do and I may as well put all these civialn factories to some use. It does make the invasion shorter obviously but at this point we are just getting to the inevitable quicker.
As a rule i can generally leave Europe on the lowest garrison setting without any real issues, occasionally if someone runs a resistance mission I might have to increase it temporarily for a state.
In my Germany playthroughs I generally rush the first collab in Poland then do one in France while I build up my number of civilian factories so I can afford to do the second collab in Poland and still be building other things.
Depending in how many civilian factories I have after the second Poland collab and how close I am to going to war I sometimes do a 3rd in Poland and then go straight for second in France which I make sure will be finished before they capitulate. If I am close war I go straight for the second in France.
In short minimum 2 in Poland, Minimum 2 in France, 3rd in Poland if I have the opportunity.
As soon as I have finished the 2nd collab in France I start work on Britain.
I always get 1 collab, I aim to get 2 but that depends on British resistance. If I can do an early sealion I stick with 1, if I need to whittle them down a bit I aim for 2 and may even hold off on actual capitulation until I finish the second.
I never bother with the rest if Europe as those countries are too small to bother with and if you use the focus you can just puppets the low countries and Norway and then you can ask them for garrison help which usually solves your garrison manpower issues.
Having taken over over mainland Europe I usually double my factory count straight away due to the collaborations and with Britain taken also I have a huge industrial base to take on Russia.
As an additional note I never do divisions of Poland. Not least because Russia doesn't actually help with the invasion but because there is no need and with high collab that is extra factories and resources you can use to outproduce your enemy.
After Britain i focus on Russia with a different reason which is you need to reduce their capitulation threshold.
Without collabs in Russia you need to go past the Urals to win which is almost impossible as the supply situation past Moscow is almost none existent. With 3 collabs taking Moscow usually ends the war and factories gained are just a bonus as I usually have more factories than I actually have things I need to build with them.
At this point I am just messing around with production..I have researched the next airframe or tank chassis so I start a line with 150 factories to get that new model in the field quickly etc. Don't really need to do it but why not?!
Once Russia is done I obviously go for 3 collabs in the US just because, what else are my spies going to do and I may as well put all these civialn factories to some use. It does make the invasion shorter obviously but at this point we are just getting to the inevitable quicker.
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If you have Collab in place on Russia, does that reduce resistance during the war, or does Collab only kick in if you defeat Russia?
If Collab only work when you defeat a country and not during the way, why bother with Russia because if you defeat them, you already won.
If Collab only work when you defeat a country and not during the way, why bother with Russia because if you defeat them, you already won.
Collabs during war primarily lower the threshold for capitulation.
As I mentioned this is important for Russia as you get get them to capitulate by taking Moscow. Without collabs you need to go past Moscow where there is virtually no supply and thus you end up bogged down unable to move forward.
As I mentioned this is important for Russia as you get get them to capitulate by taking Moscow. Without collabs you need to go past Moscow where there is virtually no supply and thus you end up bogged down unable to move forward.
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Depends your match goals. Personally I never liked collabs as they are too strong and simple.
What I think its better have single large nations on full collabaration. Reaching 25% threshold is mostly alright. So as Germany priority is 80% France, 25% Poland (optional) and much as possible on soviets. Ignore all minors. UK is something you can do but just as USA it's often not needed after you have crushed rest of the Europe.
Totally collabing France skips Vichy and you can remove a lot of resistance in different countries. So this is where you personal play preferrences matter.
Time is often limiting here tho. Early agency and collabs eats some of your early economy.
What I think its better have single large nations on full collabaration. Reaching 25% threshold is mostly alright. So as Germany priority is 80% France, 25% Poland (optional) and much as possible on soviets. Ignore all minors. UK is something you can do but just as USA it's often not needed after you have crushed rest of the Europe.
Totally collabing France skips Vichy and you can remove a lot of resistance in different countries. So this is where you personal play preferrences matter.
Time is often limiting here tho. Early agency and collabs eats some of your early economy.
I haven't done the exact math but as collab gives a higher percentage of factory use doing high collab on France and Britain gets you a much larger industrial base on capturing them which more than makes up for any initial slow economy build up.
Also you can take Poland, France and Britain with quite a small army so you don't need the early economy as much as you need the large industrial base you need after taking them to take on Russia.
As a basic judge of the difference between having collabs and not, when you are taking France over you gain access to captured factories but have zero compliance in the captured states as collab doesn't kick in until after capitulation. When I capitulate them I end up with at least 100 additional factories with 60 collab and more if I squeezed in the third.
For Poland, the main reason for high collab is actually resistance as Poland has the Warsaw uprising which happens with high resistance and the AI seems to like to work to trigger it so you really have to keep an eye on Poland resistance.
France and Yougulsavia defenetly and Russia later on. That are the biggest burner if you can make an collab-Gouvernment later on for Poland it wouldn´t go amiss too.
I guess the question is if higher productivity later is more important than higher productivity earlier.
Its true that collabs will give way more factories once you capitulate people, but if those civs used during the spy mission were busy making more civs or mils instead, youd have more equipment to begin with upon start of the war, better production efficiency built up, etc.
A collaboration gov operation costs 200 support eq, 1000 inf eq, and 10 civ factories for 60 days. Each civ makes 5 output per day, so total 3000 output is lost. But this is before construction and infrastructure bonuses, which of course varies a LOT depending in circumstances. For sake of simplicity lets assume +25% bonus and 1.8 infrastructure for Germany. If the math is right, thats 6750 output lost per operation.
This is:
0.625 of a civ factory (10800 cost) or
0.9375 of a mil factory (7200 cost) or
1.054 naval dockyards (6400 cost)
Per collaboration government operation. Factories now are more valuable than factories later.
Not that Im arguing against collaboration governments, theyre massively useful even if you were to ignore just the factory count (resistance and surrender limit), just felt like looking into the opportunity cost basically.
Its true that collabs will give way more factories once you capitulate people, but if those civs used during the spy mission were busy making more civs or mils instead, youd have more equipment to begin with upon start of the war, better production efficiency built up, etc.
A collaboration gov operation costs 200 support eq, 1000 inf eq, and 10 civ factories for 60 days. Each civ makes 5 output per day, so total 3000 output is lost. But this is before construction and infrastructure bonuses, which of course varies a LOT depending in circumstances. For sake of simplicity lets assume +25% bonus and 1.8 infrastructure for Germany. If the math is right, thats 6750 output lost per operation.
This is:
0.625 of a civ factory (10800 cost) or
0.9375 of a mil factory (7200 cost) or
1.054 naval dockyards (6400 cost)
Per collaboration government operation. Factories now are more valuable than factories later.
Not that Im arguing against collaboration governments, theyre massively useful even if you were to ignore just the factory count (resistance and surrender limit), just felt like looking into the opportunity cost basically.
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71cloak did a video on this. He found that collabing countries with less than 20 to 25 factories was not worth doing, especially in the early years, as the pay off did not happen until the war was almost over. He also found serious diminishing returns seemed to kick in after 45% collaboration was reached. In a nutshell, collabing countries with large factory counts was worth it for the factories gained versus the factories lost. I recommend watching, as my memory is not perfect on it.
Personally, while playing Germany I like to collab France at least once, but the most important country, to me, is to collab Russia as much as possible so to reduce the number of victory points required to win. I have no desire to ever again push past the Urals to cap Russia.
Personally, while playing Germany I like to collab France at least once, but the most important country, to me, is to collab Russia as much as possible so to reduce the number of victory points required to win. I have no desire to ever again push past the Urals to cap Russia.
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2 on France, 1-2 on Poland, 1 on Netherlands or Belgium, 1-2 on Yugo (depends on resource requirements, make sure not to let other Axis members steal anything!), and then once you go to war with Russia since you'll have nothing else to do with your civs collab at least twice.
i usually just trade with Portugal and Spain when I need the tungsten which is usually later in the game anyway.
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