• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(99067)

Corporal
Apr 27, 2008
34
0
In every game i've played, and what seems ever game others have played, the Seleucid Empire (SE) will basically end up owning everything from Anatolia, down to the Egyptian borders, and then the rest of the map to the east. This makes for a giant enemy to slowly wear away once you finally deal with them.

The problem with this is that it is completly unrealistic, and almost tends to dumb down the game, constantly going to war with them, winning, taking a few territories. Rinse and repeat, until you get bored and leave them alone or start a new campaign.

The reason it is completly unrealistic, is that other than under Seleucus I Nicator and then again for a short while under Antiochus III the Great (around 200 BCE), the SE was constanly losing territories, mostly to civil wars, and rebellions (i.e. Parthia, Backtria, etc..). Basically after Antiochus III the empire was almost consistenly at civil war.

The SE didn't die off from outside pressures, but almost entirely from within. But this will never happen in the game. And when Parthia does spawn they are quickly put down and dissappear too quickly.

Basically my solution would be to treat the seleucid empire differently than other countries, by having a large increase to revolt risk (10 - 20%) the further east the empire gets. Thus taking some manpower away from their conquering and expansion.

I would also have a large increase to loyatly penalties (-20% to each character). In this way civil wars are almost constant and become the biggest challenge to play.

I think those two things would add a significant when playing seleucid, and when playing as someone else add a unique element when fighting them. Timing your wars to when they are weak and capturing their territories when they can't be bother to defend or care about them.

This is way too long for a post, but just my two cents.
 

TheLand

Post-Captain
43 Badges
Dec 19, 2004
4.586
619
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron: The Card Game
I agree wholeheartedly about the Parthians, and what you're saying kind-of fits in with something I had been thinking about the whole game...

It should be much more difficult to hold on to hold on to big, ethnically diverse empires.

I am not sure that RR is the right solution - because revolts are, more or less, both easy and a bit frustrating to put down (it's all whack-a-mole).

What should happen is that a group of provinces - or perhaps several groups - all start giving you problems at around the same time... civil wars, wars of secession, barbarian tribes and the like...

Do you have any resources whcih give more details on what the internal struggles of the Seleucids were? (he says hopefully)
 

Flooper X

Field Marshal
40 Badges
Mar 26, 2006
2.986
0
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
the problem, as far as I can tell, isn't as much that it is difficult to maintain a culturally diverse empire, but rather that it doesn't take long before the selelucids stop being a culturally diverse empire, and become a greek empire.

Another problem is that later on, techs give popularity boosts which more or less give a constant 100% popularity for rulers, and thus reduces the risk of civil war drastically.
 

Zaku

Panzer General
94 Badges
Aug 7, 2005
3.333
8.855
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • 500k Club
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Sengoku
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • BATTLETECH
In my last game, the Selecuid Empire had a civil war for almost 150 years. Egyipt/Pontus/etc DOWed them several times, and they bite a large chunk from the empire every time. When the Civil war ended(the Rebels won) they had only half of their empire remaining.
This was an extreme scenario, in most of my games the Selecuid Empire ownz everyone if you leave them alone long enough, so I agree with the topic starter. They are simply too powerful.
 

Namm

Major
11 Badges
Sep 5, 2006
560
23
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
It's a problem with the small map I would say. Enemies to the east aren't present or are small (Parthia). In the current map, there's also too few provinces. More provinces to act as buffers for rebels, to give them time to besiege and brake away, would make it harder for the Seleucids.
 

unmerged(99067)

Corporal
Apr 27, 2008
34
0
TheLand said:
I am not sure that RR is the right solution - because revolts are, more or less, both easy and a bit frustrating to put down (it's all whack-a-mole).

RR for me is really annoying because you have to move your army away from your borders and deal with it. But how annoying is it when every army is engaged and holding territory while your at war, and rebels pop up some distance away?

So picture that, but with the size of the seleucid empire, that distance is huge. so multiple province in the far east spawning multiple rebels that you simply can't afford to deal with. civil wars are still better, but i dont know if you can mod loyalty rates for seleucid only.

TheLand said:
Do you have any resources whcih give more details on what the internal struggles of the Seleucids were? (he says hopefully)

For resources, there is nothing geater than wikipedia (just be careful you don't get hooked) ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_empire
 

unmerged(101035)

Major
5 Badges
May 14, 2008
758
0
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
Well, you could start in time period 2, where Egypt seems to totally reverse the fortunes of time period 1... meaning the AI Egypt usually beats the snot out of the AI Seleucids. Of course, this is exchanging one monster for another, but it is at least some variety while you wait for a fix.

I have seen civil wars totally render them obsolete in the first period (where they get down to 0 manpower and they have been at 0 and in civil war for decades heh), the problem is... AI Egypt is just retarded, and keeps declaring war when they are ALSO stuck at low manpower, so there STILL isn't anybody eating away at the seleucids. I haven't played that campaign far enough for the parthians to appear, but once they do I think they'll actually be able to swallow up much of the yellow. Other than this extreme example, absolutely, the Parthians are pretty much a pointless event.

The other problem is that they have SO many provinces that the victory point threshold is just ridiculous to even expect anyone other than a butt lucky egypt to whittle some of that territory down. I've seen everyone from Pontus to Armenia to Bithnya and Pergamon also try to take advantage of seleucid civil war/low manpower, but of course even if they do a remarkable job (considering relative size) and take 4-5 provinces, it doesn't matter, it's not enough victory points for the Seleucids to even cede any territory.... and eventually the manpower comes back and the attacking country, despite good success and smartly timed invasions, loses the war. I've seen the Seleucids pay tribute to Pontus just to get out of a war when Egypt also was at war with them (lol), but Pontus still didn't get any territories even after taking all of anatolia pretty much.

From what I understand, the Seleucids self destructed as much as got whittled away, but still... most large empires that get too big tend to get "whittled away". There's not much of a way to "whittle away" in this game, particularly AI versus AI at least. In addition to making them more unstable, I think coming up with some way to "whittle away" would also help.
 

Sol Invictus

Colonel
18 Badges
Jan 28, 2002
1.047
4
Visit site
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Knights of Honor
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Rise of Prussia
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
A big part of the problem is that victory in battles is a low proportion of WS compared to Province occupation. This leads to the need to conquer territory instead of defeating the enemy army. Rome stuck a knife into Seleucia at the battle of Magnesia, but in the game, Rome would need to win ten or more Magnesia sized battles as well as conquer a huge majority of their provinces in order to get them to the peace table. This is well beyond even a moderately sized AI faction. This leads to a more WWII type of conquest than should be represented in the game. The chance for a devastating victory in a single or small string of battles is completely absent when taking on a big empire.
 

unmerged(14477)

First Lieutenant
Feb 6, 2003
225
0
Visit site
Namm said:
It's a problem with the small map I would say. Enemies to the east aren't present or are small (Parthia). In the current map, there's also too few provinces. More provinces to act as buffers for rebels, to give them time to besiege and brake away, would make it harder for the Seleucids.

That would be a decent solution. More provinces, more minors who are a pain in the arse for Seleucids (and every other big empire) and also events for new countries to emerge from the big yellow blob... all those would be great.

But one minor point: why do everybody expect a "historical" situation and outcome? I mean, I haven't heard anyone complaining that Carthago eats up the whole Egypt (has done so, in 1/2 of my games) or that some Gaul minors in 1.2 become superpowers (have 6-province ...Arvernii is it? in my last game!!!!) or that Numidia gets sometimes the whole of western Africa (hello???). Seems ALL grips are centered around three things: Masillia spamming the universe with colonies (which is still - despite the gallic expansion - an issue) macedonian colonizing to Poland (yay, sucks...) and Seleucids keeping their empire together 9 out of 10 (they never became a suuuuuuuuuuper power in my games... wonder why...)

Relax lads, the point in this is creating varied outcomes, not playing out history again and again, huh? Otherwise, why play anyone except Rome? :D
 

TheLand

Post-Captain
43 Badges
Dec 19, 2004
4.586
619
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron: The Card Game
Publius Clodius said:
For resources, there is othing geater than wikipedia (just be careful you don't get hooked) ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_empire

Worryingly enough I already am hooked (read the article on Battleships).

So I understand the strengths and weaknesses of Wikipedia articles. :p
 

lucaluca

Exotic traveler
48 Badges
Dec 7, 2003
4.107
196
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
Sol Invictus said:
A big part of the problem is that victory in battles is a low proportion of WS compared to Province occupation. This leads to the need to conquer territory instead of defeating the enemy army. Rome stuck a knife into Seleucia at the battle of Magnesia, but in the game, Rome would need to win ten or more Magnesia sized battles as well as conquer a huge majority of their provinces in order to get them to the peace table. This is well beyond even a moderately sized AI faction. This leads to a more WWII type of conquest than should be represented in the game. The chance for a devastating victory in a single or small string of battles is completely absent when taking on a big empire.

This is the point exactly. The way worscore is calculated, battles do not count. So big states can lose a lot of battles but can still conquer a minor pretty quickly.

This is related to the fact that manpower replenishes too fast. If manpower was slower to grow, single battles could have an impact on the manpower pool and cause big states to accept peace.

It's also an AI issue; especially with 1.2, defense is better than offense for small states so they should really sit in their provinces and fight defensive wars when possible. I was able to win a war against Rome as Macedonia by just crushing all invading armies and driving their manpower pool to 0.

And it's not really a matter of Seleucids, if they weakened Egypt will take their place. There should be more balance between these 2 powers.

Edit: additionally, do we really want to stop big empires/blobs from forming? This is what Rome was doing at the time so it looks to me more of a design decision. Blobs also make for a more interesting gameplay (when they are opponents).
 
Last edited:

POemil

Captain
86 Badges
Sep 3, 2006
341
15
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
At start, Egypt vs Seleucids seems pretty balanced. But once more provinces convert to greek, and teh seleucids start talking armenian, iberian,... lands they keep getting more powerfull, while Egypt never gets stronger, untill the point where they are decisivly stronger than Egypt and start eating them.
Parthia is nothing more than a minor inconvenience for the Seleucids.
 

krasny

Card Carrying Anarchist
77 Badges
Mar 20, 2002
721
47
Visit site
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
Sounds to me that the solution is pretty simple:

Give all large empires their own set of events, such as increased civil war chance, amicable splitting up into two or more empires (like Rome did), or having off board nations invade.
 

unmerged(99067)

Corporal
Apr 27, 2008
34
0
I think the events would work (as part of a solution).

Judea spawning, Partha and Baktria (which i think would actually be off the map) at the same time historically. Huge numbers of Galatians running rampant over Anatolia.

But I still say Civil Wars are the way to go. I guess if you were playing as them and wanted to make things intresting you could just play dumb and let your 0% loyalty generals run wild.


P.S. what else is awesome is when you post and the server here is 'too busy'. Perhaps they didn't realize just how popular their games would be?
 

Eöl

First Lieutenant
39 Badges
Mar 22, 2008
276
12
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Manpower should grow as fast as it is now within you're own territory or territories that you have a cassius belli on but I think attrition ISN’T modelled properly. After all you wouldn't suddenly start pulling recruits from a territory that’s been occupied for a few days?
Concerning Invasion:
Attrition for an occupying force should vary randomly from 1 to 50 casualties a day.
There should be random sabotage/uprising events that wipe out the defenders and potentially raise a militia.
Concerned citizens raising private armies to help event shouldn’t be limited to civil wars.

On the Seleucids
Random outside invasion event.
They should be more culturally divided for longer and with a higher risk of civil war perhaps the rebels could form countries based on their culture base.
Randomly forming tribes from former barbarian territories would be cool too

The Seleucids aren’t the only the factions that gets too powerful too quickly Macedonia can be bloody annoying as well. For the past few hundred years I’ve been carefully and tentatively building my military tribe into capable power on the black sea fighting and winning wars against the Seleucids and repeatedly going into and crawling out of debts with related civil wars attached only too be attacked and annexed by a cancerous Macedonia that’s expanding into Poland!
Gah!
 

unmerged(48100)

Field Marshal
Aug 30, 2005
3.869
0
TheLand said:
It should be much more difficult to hold on to hold on to big, ethnically diverse empires.

I am not sure that RR is the right solution - because revolts are, more or less, both easy and a bit frustrating to put down (it's all whack-a-mole).

What should happen is that a group of provinces - or perhaps several groups - all start giving you problems at around the same time... civil wars, wars of secession, barbarian tribes and the like...
Completely agreed.

What I'd like to see is more of a CK like system of vassals, in this case governors, on which the ruler has little influence on ruling most lands. Those should be more likely to try and get influence on the throne or create their own kingdoms as well. I think this would make the whole appointing of governors and spamming of big empires a little more realistic.

Right now that's exactly my problem, either I or the AI create huge monsters that then fight for hegemony, while the smaller states become almost unimportant (because I can, as in my current Egypt game, tell them to just give me tribute without really taking anything because my manpower and army is big enough). Wars from within only happen a few times, and the Seleucid Rebels rather try to take the whole Empire instead of creating their own kingdom in Asia Minor, which they own completely, for example.
 

unmerged(101035)

Major
5 Badges
May 14, 2008
758
0
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
Eöl said:
Manpower should grow as fast as it is now within you're own territory or territories that you have a cassius belli on but I think attrition ISN’T modelled properly. After all you wouldn't suddenly start pulling recruits from a territory that’s been occupied for a few days?
Concerning Invasion:
Attrition for an occupying force should vary randomly from 1 to 50 casualties a day.
There should be random sabotage/uprising events that wipe out the defenders and potentially raise a militia.
Concerned citizens raising private armies to help event shouldn’t be limited to civil wars.

On the Seleucids
Random outside invasion event.
They should be more culturally divided for longer and with a higher risk of civil war perhaps the rebels could form countries based on their culture base.
Randomly forming tribes from former barbarian territories would be cool too

The Seleucids aren’t the only the factions that gets too powerful too quickly Macedonia can be bloody annoying as well. For the past few hundred years I’ve been carefully and tentatively building my military tribe into capable power on the black sea fighting and winning wars against the Seleucids and repeatedly going into and crawling out of debts with related civil wars attached only too be attacked and annexed by a cancerous Macedonia that’s expanding into Poland!
Gah!

I definitely disagree with attrition in an occupied zone, it's meant to signify a supply line. If you didn't get reinforced in an occupied area, it'd be quite literally impossible to invade anyone who wasn't utterly weak to start... you could take the border provinces, but then you couldn't march on because you'd be losing men just doing that while the defenders chilled at full strength.
 

unmerged(84009)

Corporal
Sep 15, 2007
42
0
what ...!!

let the seleucide at peace ....................................... personaly i fond seleucide very realistic, and after reading all your post about, i'm really :rofl: , its rediculus to want the weak of some empire like this, are you forgot ROME - Carthage - Egypte ....... really enouph of :wacko:
 

Terrifying Effigies

Temperance Society President
21 Badges
Sep 17, 2005
409
0
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Darkest Hour
I agree that cultural conversion should be much harder for the Selucids (and other countries as well). There should only be a reasonable chance of it happening for colonies and low (<10) population provinces.

Another thing that would help would be for more disloyal governors and generals - in my games, by the time 50 years have gone by over 95% of the Selucids' characters have loyalty over 80%, with only 3 or 4 even close to being disloyal enough to revolt.