How to make the monarch points system more logical, while keeping its basic nature:

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Vox Imperatoris

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First of all, I want to make clear that this is not a rant against "mana" or a demand for Paradox to rip it out entirely. Regardless of what anyone thinks about it, it's pretty essential to EUIV's current design.

What I want is a change to how the system works, in order to solve three major problems of the system as it is now:
  1. The trade-offs the current system forces you to make are illogical. The point of "mana" is to limit the player and force some trade-offs. But currently, it does not implement trade-offs across the three pools very well. For instance, conquering half of France and going on a coring spree should present some trade-offs vs. naval and military power—but currently, it just makes it harder to boost administrative technology and stability.
  2. Closely related to this, the system punishes specialization and creates paradoxical choices. For example, hiring a bunch of admirals should make it easier to get navy tech and harder to get army tech—but currently, it is the other way around.
  3. There is not enough "inertia" in the system between monarchs' reigns. Obviously, one of the purposes of the system is to force the player out of his comfort zone and pursue new avenues of expansion. But a 0/0/6 ruler who takes over from a 6/0/0 ruler should have some trouble completely turning around the country's specialization.
My solution involves three major changes:

First, combine all three income pools into a single super-mana pool called "State Power" (or something like that). The income rate into this pool would be determined, as before, by the monarch's ADM (Administrative/Diplomatic/Military) ratings, plus those of hired advisers.

Possibly, the base rate could be modified by government type, to represent that advanced forms of government have some inherent State Power independent of monarch quality.

This might sound like a further "casualization" and simplification, but it really isn't, as I will make clear below.

Second, make the ADM ratings of the monarch (modified by advisers) provide a multiplier to the State Power spent on actions. For instance, imagine a ruler with an ADM of 6/1/0. For every State Power point spent on an Administrative action, the player gets 6 extra points. For every point spent on Diplomatic actions, the player gets just 1 extra point. And for Military actions, the player gets no extra points.

(The interface could simplify this so that the player, unless he looks at the tooltip, only sees the final State Power cost of the action, taking the bonus into account. E.g. "Raise Stability": 100 Effective State Power = 14.25 SP + (14.25 * 6 = 85.5 B[onus]SP). Number shown to the player when he wants to raise stability: 14.25 SP.)

This represents the fact that a ruler who is good at a particular area can marshal the state's resources much more efficiently. On the other hand, if he's bad at an area, he can still accomplish what he wants by throwing time and money at it, but with a lot more corruption and waste.

What is the point of this change? It now forces trade-offs among the three categories of action and not just within them. A ruler whose true forte is diplomacy and trade now really feels the pain of going on a land-based conquering spree. Every State Power point he spends on the army could have gone much further if allocated to the navy; his talents—and the resources of the state—are being wasted.

Third, create a system of Administrative/Diplomatic/Military "tradition," on the model of army/navy tradition. Of course, a state's power isn't determined solely by the abilities of the current leader; it is also affected by its traditions. Thus, I would create an additional multiplier to the State Power spent on actions, over and above that granted by the ruler's ADM ratings.

Essentially, this would range from a 0% to 100% boost to every State Power point spent, on top of the ruler's bonus. The system would be implemented so that the total "tradition" between Administrative, Diplomatic, and Military adds up to 100%. (In fact, it could be higher or lower than 100% if necessary for balance reasons.)

Every time the player spends State Power in a particular area, the "tradition" of that area goes up very slightly, balanced by a decrease in the tradition of the other areas. So if the player buys 5 admirals, this slightly increases Diplomatic tradition while weakening Administrative and Military tradition. This rewards specialization: by buying those admirals, it becomes cheaper for the player to upgrade navy technology and ideas and more expensive to upgrade land technology and ideas.

Moreover, there could be additional ways for the player to rapidly switch tradition, at the cost of a stability hit or other penalty. For instance, take the historical example of Peter the Great. We may imagine him as a ruler whose highest ability is Diplomatic (because of his naval focus). Despite his great naval abilities, he rules Russia, which has no tradition in that area. If he wants to change this, he can take a stability hit to rapidly increase Russia's tradition in that area and allow him to use his talents more effectively. But if his successor wants to rapidly abandon that legacy, he or she will also have to pay a penalty.

Conclusion

I am interested in any thoughts and feedback on this proposed system. I have tried my best to design a system which, though obviously no easy task, could be implemented by the developers in EUIV's current form. The game would play in a basically similar way, but the trade-offs imposed by "mana" would be far more logical.

TL;DR: create a single super-mana pool. Make the ADM ratings give a bonus to points spent from this pool into their respective areas. Give states a system of ADM "tradition" on top of this to provide a further bonus.
 
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Vox Imperatoris

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I just want to add, for clarification, that all the specific numbers used in my post are for illustration only. They may be (and probably are) horrifically unbalanced. For instance, maybe a rating of 6 in Administration doesn't provide 6 extra points for every 1 spent. Maybe it only provides 2 or 3.

A lot of tweaking would need to be done to reach the best values.
 

GeneralPetrov

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It's a little bit complicated/not as clear compared to the current system, but it's certainly not a bad idea and I would be interested in the devs response.
 
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Slargos

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:eek:

Are you Prof. Xavier?

This is literally my 2 year old idea.

Are you a mind reader? :D

Anyway, I approve of this idea. It is clearly superior to the current system.

Edit: Aside from calling it "mana". You shouldn't do that. There's a special place in hell for people who refer to monarch power points as "mana" other than when citing the people who do it earnestly. Don't do it.
 
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martias7

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I like this idea. It seems oddly balanced, especially wiht how the inertial system works. I think there would have to be some form of check for quick turn arounds though. Maybe some sort of reactionary uprising? After all, I doubt the military commanders would be super happy about the state disregarding their wishes all of a sudden...
 

Vox Imperatoris

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Anyway, I approve of this idea. It is clearly superior to the current system.

Edit: Aside from calling it "mana". You shouldn't do that. There's a special place in hell for people who refer to monarch power points as "mana" other than when citing the people who do it earnestly. Don't do it.

Thanks for the compliment!

And I mean no offense by calling monarch points "mana." I'm just using it as a shorthand.
 

knul

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I like the idea, especially the tradition mechanism. I would suggest ruler stats give a discount on resource spend rather than a multiplier. this makes more sense: a good ruler gets things done using less time/other resources. It really makes little sense that an action creates resources rather than consume them.

There's also the problem that the more you do, the more state power you have, so you can do more stuff, so you get even more state power...
 

Sarmatian

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Every time the player spends State Power in a particular area, the "tradition" of that area goes up very slightly, balanced by a decrease in the tradition of the other areas. So if the player buys 5 admirals, this slightly increases Diplomatic tradition while weakening Administrative and Military tradition. This rewards specialization: by buying those admirals, it becomes cheaper for the player to upgrade navy technology and ideas and more expensive to upgrade land technology and ideas.

Moreover, there could be additional ways for the player to rapidly switch tradition, at the cost of a stability hit or other penalty. For instance, take the historical example of Peter the Great. We may imagine him as a ruler whose highest ability is Diplomatic (because of his naval focus). Despite his great naval abilities, he rules Russia, which has no tradition in that area. If he wants to change this, he can take a stability hit to rapidly increase Russia's tradition in that area and allow him to use his talents more effectively. But if his successor wants to rapidly abandon that legacy, he or she will also have to pay a penalty.

What's to stop players from focusing on a single ability, say military, achieving a comparative advantage over the AI, crushing nearby rivals, and then switching to administrative and use focus and behind tech bonus to rapidly advance administrative tech and catch up?

Monarch now are already better at stuff if their skills are higher in those respective areas, only it is abstracted in a different way. High ADM skill ruler will be able integrate more territories faster in the long run.

I must admit I don't see what is the actual benefit of this suggestion.

Edit: Aside from calling it "mana". You shouldn't do that. There's a special place in hell for people who refer to monarch power points as "mana" other than when citing the people who do it earnestly. Don't do it.

The problem is that MP in gaming jargon refers to Multi Player. I'm not sure how better to shorten the phrase. Mo-po?