How to Make Races Great Again

[Big J Money]

Caveat: If you have fundamental issues with the current race building system, this post is not for you. I'm not going to suggest any changes to it. However, if you're disappointed by the lack of a distinct feel or lore around the AoW4 'races', then you might enjoy this post. Consider yourself warned, because this will be long.

With the ability for us to create our own races, there's a disconnect in AoW4 between the game's setting and its gameplay mechanics. Rather than having a lore that describes interesting and unique races which populate Athla (or any world), we players have the pieces to make our own races. But, quite frequently we experience games where the factions have sufficient thematic overlap that they feel very similar to each other. Some players have dubbed this phenomenon 'the same race but with different skins'. While I don't expect Triumph to change their game, I do think with some additional design effort this problem could be addressed through a new Story Realm campaign. It would likely be up to the modding community at this point, but who knows. Maybe a team of folks at Triumph like writing fantasy fiction and would be interested to release their own mod. I see this problem requiring a multi-faceted solution, so I'm going to cover each piece separately and in detail.

This post isn't addressed at one group, but anyone who cares to listen. I'm willing to help with story writing or scripting/programming if a modding group forms to create this setting, just don't ask me to do any art! This post will be about AoW4 'canon' however, because I believe strengthening the AoW4 canon to be healthy for the future of the product, and of course the real owners of that canon must be Triumph. But who knows; with approval or support maybe a modding team can update the canon with Triumph's blessing.

 

[Big J Money]

Part One, Establish a Canon World for the AoW4 Setting
Since this canon world could be, but need not be Athla, I'll just call it 'World A' for the rest of this discussion. World A should have a substantial and very detailed backstory to distinguish its notable characteristics and recent events from the Athla we left behind circa AoW3. The designer(s) of this World should go to great lengths to write about its lands and its people (in internal documentation) so that pieces of its lore can be parceled out as described below.

First distinction: Not all of the Realms of the AoW4 'multiverse' are from World A. World A would be presented as a series of Story Realms that tell its story. It would be the featured world of AoW4, with its own canon, but in the 'meta-canon' of AoW4 it is but one of many possible worlds. I hope I'm not misunderstanding the multiversal nature of Magehaven, but if I am, this post should be easy to correct.

Second distintion: When I say 'Region' I'm talking about some (arbitrary) fictional region within World A. I'm not talking about a game map. I repeat, Region is not game map. I'll refer to game maps as 'Story Realm' because those are the only kinds of maps that I'm going to bring up in this discussion. I will not be referring to any other Realms, as in custom player-generated Realms, or the pre-existing Realms (Tier 1 Realms, etc).

World A should have multiple Regions described in its backstory. Each Region should have a very detailed lore entry that fleshes it out and makes it interesting. Each Region should be represented in the game by one (or more!) Story Realms with custom events that give clues about this history and/or the current events of the Region. Whether or not there is a main plot in every Story Realm, there should at least be an established metaplot for the Region it takes place in. A basic example might be a backstory of how a faction of elves nearly made the trolls go extinct. Whether or not the Story Realm's main plot revolves around this, the player will learn about the backstory of these elves (and trolls), as well the repurcussions that have come to pass to make this Region what it is today.

However, before I go into the characteristics of the Story Realms, let me talk about how I believe races should work, because that's the lynchpin.

 

[Big J Money]

Part Two, Establish Canon Races for World A
I won't talk about what I think should be written as canon, since I'm not an AoW lore buff, but I will talk about how. This is going to be detailed, because the creative details matter.

1. For each Region in World A, list out the inhabiting races. Using the fictional pieces that are represented in the AoW4 gameplay machanics, flesh out each race deeply. A basic example would be a race of dark elves that will undergo the frostling transformation in their storyline. Hand pick each race for each Region, and the subsequent Story Realms as they're created.

2. Stay away from thematic overlap within each Region, and especially within each Story Realm! Don't have two factions of High Elves in the same map. In fact, probably don't even have 2 factions of High cultural races in the same map. Some overlap can be good, and I'll talk about that below. But for now, the idea is to identify themes that should not overlap so that each race feels truly unique when the player encounters them in the Story Realm. Not only will their lore and events reflect that, but their gameplay characteristics, too. The backstory of our dark elves in example 1 would be referenced in various events, providing hints and clues about their relationship with the cold or the ancient race of Frostlings from Old Athla (or whatever). That's just a very basic example.

3. Hand pick every tome, skill and spell for each race/leader in these Story Realms. Here is where programmers would need to help, because I doubt that this is currently possible via Story Realm scripting. Each custom race in these Story Realms should have a specific list of spells that they can research. They will never research anything else. This is another way to prevent overlap. Our dark elves from step 1 should be the only race that has access to the Frostling Transformation spell, for example. This allows all of AoW4's gameplay mechanics to be tied directly to World A's fantasy lore, which is currently not possible.

4. Embrace overlap where it works well. In some cases, overlap is fine and even good because it makes the world more believable. The feudal culture is a great one to reuse, even in the same map. Humans and halflings both look familiar in feudal. Furthermore, although this is a bit of a departure from previous AoW games, do design multiple human kingdoms. Don't just have 'the humans' vs 'the orcs'. Have a human feudal kingdom that is Order monoculture, and give it a name. Have a human fuedal kingdom that is undead focused. These human sub-factions can be further distinguished by having radically different leaders. The order kingdom could have a Champion (or cardinal wizard king?) while the undead kingdom might have a necromancer wizard king (or whatever). By hand picking the spells and writing lots of story events, these two factions should feel very different. Even High culture races could look very different when good aligned vs evil aligned, and with radically different leaders (High elves vs Wood elves; or Snow elves vs Volcano elves, or whatever).

5. Give the races real proper names. 'Destined Humans' and 'Resourceful Dwarves' are not people. Nobody in any fantasy I've ever read calls the people of a society something like this. Societies have proper names. This isn't a criticism of the race name generator (although it could be improved), but rather the point is that none of the races in any of these Story Realms should have generated names or default titles. All the races would be canonical and hand-crafted with a detailed history, including a proper name for their race, and a special title for their leader that says something about the race's society. And humans need not be the only race to have sub-factions with various proper names.

6. More culture unit skin sets. For all the customization that we have, I'm a little surprised there is only 1 set of clothes per culture. Ok, maybe not; there is only so much time when making a game if you want your artist to sleep and have a life . For some examples of what I mean: Feudal units could have a style that is brighter and more festive, or a renaissance looking skin. Think about how different factions in The Witcher have distinct clothing and armor styles, even though it's all influenced by European Medieval ideas. Barbarians could have kind of an Aztec influenced style design, or also a more Viking-adjacent style. There are a lot of possibilities. But more visual styles for cultures would provide more mileage out of the existing 6 when it comes to making factions that are distinct, without needing to design new game mechanics. This is might be another 'can't mod without dev support' because it would require a new drop-down menu or slider in the race editor.

7. Don't shy away from establishing canonical facts about how some game mechanics are exclusive to certain races. The big point here is that this canon only applies to World A, so make up whatever rules you want. Not anyone on World A can learn the spell to transform into Frostlings, only the dark elves will accomplish this.

8. Highlight the cool new forms in AoW4 by creating new canonical races for them. In AoW3 we had the Tigrans. They weren't cat-people, they were Tigrans, and we learned about them from their DLC. Well, AoW Story Realms shouldn't just have mole-people, either. Instead it has the... Moldwarps? Diglings? Talpines? You get the idea. And there is only one race of them, and they definitely live underground. Sure, across the portals of Magehaven, a wizard might find mole-like people who don't live underground. But in the canon of World A, this is the story and history of the Talpines and how they formed their society after the events of AoW3, and what's happening with them now.

 

[Big J Money]

Part 3, the Story Realms
Now that there's a canon world with canon races, how to present this to the player? Through a new set of Story Realms, which look like this:

1. No custom races or leaders. Tell a story with a plot. Think about it... if there had been no Sundren campaign in AoW3, then there would be no Sundren in AoW4. The series needs new memorable characters to stay alive. For players to care about these characters, we must play as them and see the world and events through their eyes. Also, restrict the tome selection in these Story Realms to tomes that don't break the canon. We players have an infinite number of Realm combinations that we can use to design our own races and leaders any way we like when we play non-story Realms. But not here; not in World A! This is a strongly established design space in the RTS genre, where in the campaign the player is often limited to only certain units and buildings that fit with the story of the level. In skirmish maps the player has ultimate control of their development.

1b. It could be possible, with some clever event design, to allow the player to have a custom race or leader, but not both, in the same Story Realm. In the case of a custom race, the Story Realm plot would focus on the leader. In the case of a custom leader, the plot would be about the race. But AFAIK there is no way to have one without the other because of the way the race editor currently works. There is already a precedent that a Story Realm can limit the race editor (ex. disallow the Wizard King option), but perhaps this would be too complicated or confusing.

2. No generic or generated names anywhere in the Story Realms of World A; not even for hero names. This might also require some code support for modding, I think.

3. Hand design every Free City race and leader. These are also the races or factions of World A. While they might not be the main cast, they are just as important to the meaning of the world. Since there isn't enough time to tell a story about every race, the rest of them can be represented by Free Cities, making players want to know more about them in the future. I assume this would also require programmer support, because I think free cities are only created right now by random generation, but maybe I'm wrong and this is actually currently moddable.

4. Don't lean on previous games too hard. This is a new world with a new story, and must be interesting on its own merits if people are going to care about it. The irony of the existing Story Realms is that AoW4 is supposed to be a reboot of the setting, yet the main characters are often old characters from games even older than AoW3. This creates cognitive dissonance for me, personally. It's great for fans of the old games, but less interesting for people who never played them. I think cameos, easter eggs, and fan-service are great things to have, but a setting also needs to be able to stand on its own legs.

5. It's not necessary, but a map generation tool / editor would make a big difference. Obviously we can't have a hex-based map editor due to the way AoW4 map generation works. But a visual tool that allows a map maker to generate a map, look at it within the application, make certain changes (such as a province's terrain type), and then save the map to a file or generation seed that can be loaded by a Story Realm -- such a thing would go a long way. Especially if it allowed for the reintroduction of location instance event triggers (i.e. hex coordinates).

Part 4, This is a Multiverse
These final words are just to serve as a reminder to the reader that everything written above only applies to one world among the AoW4 multiverse. None of the ideas or restrictions above should affect the choices we players have to make our own leaders, races and Realms. They only apply to the set of proposed Story Realms. AoW4 is a brilliant game; it truly is the best iteration of the 'fantasy empire simulator' that people look to in a fantasy 4X game. This is obviously the grand vision that Triumph has for AoW4, and in my opinion they succeeded. Far be it from me to suggest that things should be otherwise. But I think we can have that, and a set of canonical races to enjoy at the same time. If you made it this far, congratulations have a fish stick.

 

[Newbee53]

I think the biggest problem with this is that the cannon setting is mage haven, and definitionally it’s about the ability to travel to other worlds and realms. I'd like to see this developed more personally. I'd like to see a story realm sequence about a wizard king born to godir, going out to see the wider universe the first time. Or something similar. Hyper focus on a single world might not be bad, but I'd rather see mage haven come into focus as a metropolitan hub, with the various worlds being alternatively exploited and assisted as the different godir seek to work impose their ideology.

Personally, I'd retcon the 'ancient magic that makes it impossible to attack each other' such that mage heaven is so responsive to godir that having so many in one location crosses the line once, basically making it impossible to do much. So, in mage heaven if you try to attack someone, they can manipulate the void around them to create an impenetrable barrier, and you can do the same. But attempting to project that power gets washed out with all the conflicting 'wills' of the godir living in mage haven.

I think this would be a far more engaging story that focuses on the heavily customizable characters and allows for interesting stories.

So my main suggestion for your story is to make sure that this story embraces the concepts of outsiders arriving in the world acting to upset balance, and works with all the different types. Independent, part of the alliances, exploitative, helpful, well meaning, and selfish. I'd avoid obvious distinctions like good and evil, but they are foundational to AOW in some ways, but it would be interesting to see a 'benevolent dictator' type godir, and a warmonger 'oppress for the greater good' type as well. one of the biggest complaints I have about alignment systems in general is they tend to bleed nuance from characters over time. So I'd like to see a more nuanced look at good and evil in this game.

An evil character with a point, and a good character I’d personally call evil in the real world. They would be awesome opponents in a story where I’m supposed to play king maker. How cool would that be for a story realm?

Edit: added some clarification to the next post. But I’m mainly trying to remind people that the main thrust of the game shouldn’t be ignored in favor of blindly focusing on providing a ‘cannon’ realm of some note.

 

[Big J Money]

Yes. My focus in this post is to solve an identified problem raised by a significant portion of the community. Even in the steam forums, by far the top post is about races "only being cosmetic is bad". It's a post that arose again and again in these forums before and after release, also.

So the things you say here are all good, and I do assume that any new Story Realms should highlight and expand the parts of the AoW4 canon that Triumph already established (Magehaven), but this thread is focused specifically on defining canonical races like we had in previous games, and not anything else. If you think that the story-telling focus should be elsewhere that's fine, but it derails the whole thread, so I don't plan to go into any detail on discussions that don't stick to the main topic. But in another thread I would be glad to. To be fair, I spent hours thinking and writing this post .

TLDR; the title is specifically 'how to make races great again' not just 'how to make the setting better'.

 

[Newbee53]

Perhaps I miss understood what you are attempting, but I think the proposed focus is two narrows in and of itself to fit well in the AOW4 lore. Whatever the story is, it needs to involve world hopping to some extent, and need to incorporate the godir changing worlds and moving around. Even if the setting is uniquely focused on a single realm, characters need to have come from the outside, and the player character is a good choice giving the game pillar of faction customization.

This could be done without eliminating the focus on a specific realm, and I just reread what I wrote and realized I failed to make that clear. The idea I was trying to suggest is to duel focus the story, such that something or someone from outside 'World A' is acting as an instigator or whatever. I'm kind of amused by the idea of a wizard king character born to a godir couple on their first journey outside of mage haven adopting some refugees or outcasts and as a result getting caught up in a conflict where said refugees they were just trying to help survive are 'criminals.'

Of course, there are tons of different ways to tell a story that doesn't forget, or just reference in passing, the main themes of the AOW series. That’s just the one stuck in my head. And if the Devs want to use it, go ahead. I'll be giddy with the compliment.

 

[Big J Money]

This post isn't focused on the 'what', but on the 'how'. And specifically, how to create Story Realms that portray the kind of fantasy races that people (seem to) want to see.

I also think the 'what' is highly interesting in the scope of a larger project to create new Story Realms, it's just not the focus of the thread. And don't worry, I didn't think you were disagreeing with my ideas in the OP so much as simply ignoring them. I do agree that new Story Realms could contain fictional material that expands on both races and the unique AoW4 multiversal characteristics, since these things are not mutually exclusive.

But I would like to discuss what's actually in the OP, if possible. If you create a new thread about story ideas around world-hopping (or any story ideas in general even), I would be glad to discuss that there. Again, this thread isn't about story ideas for Story Realms, it's about design techniques that make the fantasy races stand out.

 

[tracker947]

I don't think the solution is expanding on the Canon. Add all the campaign fluff you want to it, as soon as you jump into an actual game and your Moldwarps are functionally the same as these Tigrans you're fighting, the complaint would simple rear its head again. I do not believe adding to the Canon would fundamentally solve the complaint for players that have not embraced it already.

I'm more convinced that other suggestions, such as limitations on the late game teching, would better solve this issue since most people's problems primarily lie in the end game being homogeneous rather than the early or mid game. As long as people are able to create two things that feel distinct from each other, that is enough. One reason for this is because our creations in this game are a lot more personal than something like Stellaris, where this type of framework actually works phenomenally and you do not see any complaints. But also, Stellaris has a lot more depth of play and consequence between its customization options (which is inherent to the perspective of play), as well as just far more options. So it's no wonder to me that the framework in AoW4 is so jarring to so many.

 

[Newbee53]

I also think the 'what' is highly interesting in the scope of a larger project to create new Story Realms, it's just not the focus of the thread. And don't worry, I didn't think you were disagreeing with my ideas in the OP so much as simply ignoring them

Perhaps I just see story telling completely differently, because I'm fairly certain we are talking about the exact same thing. How to make this game's lore, with your focus on races and mine on preserving the lore and themes we currently have, more complete such that people who feel more comfortable with a solid canon can feel like there is one. Short of thinking up actual story elements I've got no idea how to improve on what you've thought of. And a story so contained wouldn't be particularly interesting to me, in this game, so I've got no reason to contribute there.

However, to my ears, what you've described in the original posts would minimize the customization aspects and multiverse aspects of the game. Which would be overall detrimental to the game as a whole. So, I'm focusing on trying to explain how to avoid pushing foundational pillars to the background. I don't think anything I've suggested would undo what you're trying to do. Only would serve to prevent the multiverse and custom factions from feeling 'out of place' with the game lore.

But it would make the story better, by tying it into the full game. I love this game, and the current focus of the story. A greater look at how to better incorporate some kind of 'canon' to help those that need it is a good course of action. But for those of us who find such canon constricting, I am trying to offer a way to prevent this from shifting the canon away from the multiverse so much that one could argue that some custom faction is 'non-canon.'

 

[Kitschy]

What do you mean by canon exactly - is it authoritative lore fluff?
If that's so there is quite a bit of it already, but I wouldn't say no for more of that.

PS
Also when you are talking about "flesh out each race deeply [your dark elf example]" are you asking for ruler personality option on faction creation?

 

[Sete]

Personally I created 6 races, with my headcanon lore? And I'm fine with it.
I do the same with stellaris. Love the liberty to make my "own" sandbox.

 

[LanceRomancer]

I am usually more interested in a custom main character you can play & evolve through a multi-branching, choice & consequence story. However, I am not opposed to a more anthological approach where you play as different rulers. The first Age of Wonders may have had the most fleshed out story, with a world map & different choices. It seems to have gotten worse with subsequent entries. I definitely agree the story needs more direction. Cutscenes & more voice acting would help. I don’t mind some procedural aspects for replayability. Finding the appropriate balance with purely handcrafted elements is important.

As for race customisation, I love being able to create our own cultures & races. I think the answer is actually more custom options, with some default guidelines so auto-generated races aren’t all over the place. There should be base traits based on immutable, physical characteristics. I.e. moles should have inherent excavation, smaller races: harder to hit, bigger races: stronger, etc. This could take a similar form to Baldur’s Gate III’s lore-friendly character customisation toggles.

I think the best solution that would please everyone is to just have more than 2 traits, as well as positive & negative traits, like previous entries. I think every race should have a climate preference trait which would alter things like architecture, tome research costs, mounts, etc. I.e. arctic preferences could include arctic wolves, mammoths, polar bears, saber-tooth tigers, etc. There should also be additional “army” customisation for colour & other features.

Custom races is not really a departure from the series or genre roots, as there has always been different types of humans (Azrac/Nomads, Highmen/Archon, Frostlings, Undead, etc.), elves (dark, wood, high), goblins (more inventive/mechanical vs. savage), etc. It, like the story, should just be more fleshed out.