How to make peacetime enjoyable?

[Maq]

There's little doubt that war will always be the most thrilling part of any strategy game. If we ask why, two aspects should be pointed out: First, during war is everything at stake, you can lose the whole campaign. Second, war is fast.
Peacetime, on the other hand, will always be running on much slower pace. That's the nature of war and peace. Some contributors to this forums complain that peace is just boring and care for nothing but quick conquest. I believe they represent a minority among EUIV users, because they can be served better by various other games, while EUIV is special precisely because of its complexity. Put it simply, you must endure some period of preparations before you're ready for successful conquest.
Many contributors provided suggestions how the peacetime could become more entertaining, even a bit exciting. Paradox has recently made a move towards this direction with Common Sense. Yet I have already noticed complaints that so called "development" is nothing more than quite boring spending monarch powers for rather artificial improvements of provinces the player already has.
But frankly, inventing something truly enjoyable for peacetime is far from easy. And right now I'm trying to do something like that for my mod.
This makes me to invite the community to discuss suggestions targeting this problem. You are invited to add your ideas, no matter whether they are moddable or require reworking the whole game. For modding problems, we have special subforum.
I would love to read suggestions like that: I would enjoy peacetime if I could be busy with ...
Thank you for reading this, and even more for your suggestions and opinions.

EDIT [Jul.29]:
I have made a short summary of some promising suggestions already presented and discussed:
Celtic Emporer suggested random events like desease which require some effort to handle them.
ShadowCammy suggested ruler-subject interactions aimed at lowering public unrest, like public appearances, festivities, etc.
Another interesting suggestion from ShadowCammy opened discussion about assassination plotting as a diplomatic action.
Grand Historian contributed the idea of making rulers more alive, meaning featuring more traits, and stuff.
Tommytoofar suggested developing management on provincial level, featuring provincial governors/barons, and also population growth/decline depending on management and events.
t6.28 presented what he/she called a more complex espionage system, but which seems to me rather like some additional diplomatic possibilities. Later suggested using faction system for all countries.
BrokenSky voted for removing stability button and added suggestions how to manage stability instead. Also suggested what he/she called 'political ambitions'. Another suggestion: missionaries spreading faith abroad, even secretly.
TheMeInTeam commented negatively development introduced by Common Sense, as it does not require making important choices.
luxfelix contributed an idea of travelling luminaries, a way to support active exchange of knowledge, influence, etc.
Voldurak78 expressed wish to introduce family trees and further develop subversive diplomatic actions.
luxfelix in an interesting way developed triggers to make a country more or less focused on military.
Buladelu presented an opinion that peacetime should be expanded by interaction with other countries, not internal politics.
Philadelphus contributed an idea of 'peace-time' units, like envoys, able to influence trade or diplomatic relations.

 

[magnusvejby]

Well i would love to have some more to do in peace time but i cant think of anything that could make it more fun....

 

[tableandchair]

I think the best way to make peace better is to make internal management of your country harder.Maybe events to add unrest and increase autonomy?

 

[magnusvejby]

I think the best way to make peace better is to make internal management of your country harder.Maybe events to add unrest and increase autonomy?

Well that could maybe be fun 20% of the peace time but you cant get events all the time, but i would still love more events.

 

[Celtic Emporer]

Well, not too long ago, I throwed out a fe ideas...one to do with disease...diseases would definitely make peace and war in this game a bit more interesting...

2.Disease changes....
Im not sure EXACTLY how I would make this work if I were them, but disease neds to be reworked a bit....
The current wway for it to spread is meh... My thoughts on it are as follows:
Each disease should follow a certain 7 number code.... The last 4 letters are the "Immunity code", and once a certain disease has passed through and finished up in a province, the province becomes "immune" to that specific disease.... Some diseases would already exist in many places.... Black death, Small pox, etc... as would exist in the old world... Armies and navies would also be able to carry disease, and it coud travel up and downstream on trade nodes(faster up, slower down). It would be possible for anybody to get disease, through a random event... Their effects could be random, and based off the first 3 letters of the code and the last 4 be used for immunity(ie:1234567 would be the black death, so 123 would have all of the effects of the black death, and 4567 would decide a provinces immunity. A new disease could pop up being 123 5467 and the entire world would once again be rocked by its affects). Extremely deadly disease would be more rare, od course, but they could happen via random event.... For instance, he Aztecs could rarely get an extremely horrible disease, and it nearly destroy them, but they almost be working again when the Europeans arrive, and suddenly the Europeans would not be in such a great condition to colonize anymore... Europeans taking land deep in West Africa would make them more likely to majorly increase the chance of an extreme disease spawning.
This would make the arrival of the Europeans even more devastating for the natives(realistically), as the Europeans were so chack full of so many diseases, that it wasnt even funny...The natives... not so much.

 

[ShadowCammy]

Maybe some more ways to lower unrest with your citizens.
Ruler-subject interactions.

Perhaps your monarch can make public appearances, throw events for the public and nobles, balls, parties. Just to make your people more happy and less likely to rebel.

 

[Grand Historian]

We can start by adding in dynastic trees and expanding the leaders/rulers themselves. Portraits, Traits and Monarch Points/Leader Pips/Misc. Modifiers that are based on that, and CKII style health so they suddenly won't drop dead without so much as a warning or reason, and perhaps a 'Popularity' value/mechanic that's similar to Legitimacy/Devotion/Tradition but is available to all Gov. Branches and affects the internal management of your realm would all go a long way. Maybe adding in some WoL-like events about your ruler interacting with people outside of balls that can be tied to that.

 

[Maq]

I think the best way to make peace better is to make internal management of your country harder.Maybe events to add unrest and increase autonomy?

... to make internal management of your country harder ...
Precisely so. But by what means? Making rebels spawning too often is not the best way, I'm afraid. I don't enjoy rebels. But I do enjoy mechanics to prevent them from appearing.

 

[Maq]

Well, not too long ago, I throwed out a fe ideas...one to do with disease...diseases would definitely make peace and war in this game a bit more interesting...

Strong side: It's historically accurate.
To consider: It makes wars and other interactions more unpredictable, because plagues may temporarily weaken significantly even mighty countries.
Weak side: You can basically do nothing to prevent it. Plagues just come and go, unpredictably.

 

[Maq]

We can start by adding in dynastic trees and expanding the leaders/rulers themselves. Portraits, Traits and Monarch Points/Leader Pips/Misc. Modifiers that are based on that, and CKII style health so they suddenly won't drop dead without so much as a warning or reason, and perhaps a 'Popularity' value/mechanic that's similar to Legitimacy/Devotion/Tradition but is available to all Gov. Branches and affects the internal management of your realm would all go a long way. Maybe adding in some WoL-like events about your ruler interacting with people outside of balls that can be tied to that.

People often complain that they are stuck with a weak ruler for decades. Making the ruler more 'human' and active (or temporarily diasbled) and his/her traits changing over time is a viable idea, I believe. Could you develop it in rather more specific way?

 

[Tommytoofar]

I have read so much on these thread about Peace time mechanics, my personal suggestion is each province has a major/ baron/ land owner who have opinion of you (the ruler), with each province with its own wants and needs (development needs/ building types) and if these are not met then the opinion is lowered causing less tax, manpower, and so on. You can replace these land owners with ones of your choice (like advisers, where different land owners give boosts to certain stats e.g. manpower, production, tax, trade value) but annoying the population of said province. Where each province could have different tax levels (with a set tax for all button for when your nation is very large). I know this may be more micro-managing but i think increased interaction with land owner (not vassals).

I think population may have some interesting mechanics, where some provinces have increases and decreases depending on terrain type, land owner of the province, time of year, disease.

Would love to hear you guys suggestions on this and any possible improvements

 

[Maq]

I have read so much on these thread about Peace time mechanics, my personal suggestion is each province has a major/ baron/ land owner who have opinion of you (the ruler), with each province with its own wants and needs (development needs/ building types) and if these are not met then the opinion is lowered causing less tax, manpower, and so on. You can replace these land owners with ones of your choice (like advisers, where different land owners give boosts to certain stats e.g. manpower, production, tax, trade value) but annoying the population of said province. Where each province could have different tax levels (with a set tax for all button for when your nation is very large). I know this may be more micro-managing but i think increased interaction with land owner (not vassals).

I think population may have some interesting mechanics, where some provinces have increases and decreases depending on terrain type, land owner of the province, time of year, disease.

Would love to hear you guys suggestions on this and any possible improvements

Population growth/decline yes, definitely.
Local barons, or whatever their name: Interesting, but I don't know how to implement it at this moment. I'll think about it. But basically this local variabilities would be put to numbers through local_autonomy modifier, I imagine.

 

[Fennek11]

I think there are lots of examples to be found in the whole of gaming where "peace-time activities" make up the whole or bulk of their gameplay. Animal Crossing and Farmville come to mind, and they are both not the least popular games. The problem with having activities during peace in EU4, however, is the fact they would need to take in-game time to complete as well, else the game can just be paused to complete them all, then put on play again to continue the boredom.

 

[Twoflower]

IMO, one big problem with peacetime mechanics is that any conceivable system - be it dynasties, political factions, Victoria-like POPs, more intricate trade, production chains, development of infrastructure etc. - would not simply pause when at war. Therefore, if any of these things were to be implemented in a way that makes peacetime just as busy, interesting and full of important decisions that shape your country's fate as wartime, it would be really hard to handle at war, where warfare alone will keep you on your feet.
Of course, one could argue that it's realistic for a country to suffer from its government's attention being focussed on war and neglecting civil and social matters, however I'm not sure whether that would really be enjoyable gameplay.

 

[DaDerpyDude]

1. Add something like Aland is in real life. Basically you can make an "Autonomous province" which will always have 100% autonomy but will also govern itself to some extent.
2. Adding ultimatums to the game. For example- England expanded into the french and dutch regions. Then france coalitions england and a bunch of french, dutch, and north-west german states join the coalition. The coalition gives a 1-year ultimatum to england to give back the provinces or there will be war.

Another example:

Some nation is subsidizing another nation. A rival of the nation being subsizidized is giving a 6 month ultimatum to the subsidizing nation to revoke their subsidies or the ultimatum giving nation and all its allies and vassals will embargo the subsidizing nation.

Also, there should be a big to massive AE hit from demanding a province you don't have a core on, so poland couldn't always demand danzig for example.

 

[Maq]

IMO, one big problem with peacetime mechanics is that any conceivable system - be it dynasties, political factions, Victoria-like POPs, more intricate trade, production chains, development of infrastructure etc. - would not simply pause when at war. Therefore, if any of these things were to be implemented in a way that makes peacetime just as busy, interesting and full of important decisions that shape your country's fate as wartime, it would be really hard to handle at war, where warfare alone will keep you on your feet.
Of course, one could argue that it's realistic for a country to suffer from its government's attention being focussed on war and neglecting civil and social matters, however I'm not sure whether that would really be enjoyable gameplay.

I agree. But much of it can be avoided through triggers. Issues already running would keep on, while new issues requiring player's attention would not trigger during a war. Of course, it depends on the type of the issue in question, but as a general rule this principle is quite easy to implement.

 

[Maq]

1. Add something like Aland is in real life. Basically you can make an "Autonomous province" which will always have 100% autonomy but will also govern itself to some extent.
2. Adding ultimatums to the game. For example- England expanded into the french and dutch regions. Then france coalitions england and a bunch of french, dutch, and north-west german states join the coalition. The coalition gives a 1-year ultimatum to england to give back the provinces or there will be war.

Other ultimatum effects could be sanctions, for example multiple embargoes on a nation, even if the embargoing nations aren't rivals, imagine how much england's income would get hurt if pretty much all of the english channel nations will embargo england.

Also, there should be a big to massive AE hit from demanding a province you don't have a core on, so poland couldn't always demand danzig for example.

1. I think this is covered by vassal mechanics and it works quite well. Apart from that, making provinces or regions self-administering will not make you BUSY during peacetime, but the contrary.
2. Nice idea. Diplomatic options could be generally richer, no doubt about it. Also negotiations between countries... I mean bargaining and stuff. But a modder can't do much in this field, the diplomatic system is actually quite complex and its bulk remains hardcoded. We can add it to our wish list addressed to PDS, of course.

 

[Twoflower]

I agree. But much of it can be avoided through triggers. Issues already running would keep on, while new issues requiring player's attention would not trigger during a war. Of course, it depends on the type of the issue in question, but as a general rule this principle is quite easy to implement.

Would that be realistic, though? Economic, social or political issues do not generally stop just because there's a war. It would need to be something that
a) affects your country strongly enough to be a relevant aspect of the game
b) is strategically and/or tactically complex and difficult enough to be interesting
c) can still be handled while waging war, or at least could reasonably be neglected to a certain extent without feeling like you're playing suboptimally.

 

[Tommytoofar]

I think some issues could be linked to WE, where it is low (going well) then all provinces are happy with this and support you, and then when WE is high then some provinces dont support your war effort and you lose manpower and taxes from those provinces until the war is over or they are satisfied (bribes, more anatomy). If i had the programming knowledge then i would love to code this

 

[Maq]

I think some issues could be linked to WE, where it is low (going well) then all provinces are happy with this and support you, and then when WE is high then some provinces dont support your war effort and you lose manpower and taxes from those provinces until the war is over or they are satisfied (bribes, more anatomy). If i had the programming knowledge then i would love to code this

I've been considering similar mechanics. Not linked explicitly to war exhaustion, though. During a war, especially a defensive one, loyal provinces would support you in a way of decreased autonomy, while disloyal ones (alien culture, religion, cores of other countries, especially those who you are at war against) would take advantage and become more rebellious (unrest depends on war exhaustion, anyway) and more difficult to handle, i.e. growing local autonomy. But these features are unfortunately NOT related directly to peacetime...