How to make money and why do I lose so much ?

[Blust]

Hello, I'm going to try the One Faith and World Conquest achievements and I feel like I should earn a lot of money, but I lose some.

I don't have any trade companies except 3 provinces for the era bonus, and as you can see I'm yet to eat India. I'm snaking into China asap too. I could field more armies to keep spreading my empire but I'm afraid they're going to ruin me even more. And my armies aren't even god-tier, my comp is 16/4/6. Thanks

 

[Darth.]

I assume you know about the workshops+manufactories combo if you're going for a WC. And honestly, if you're going for a world conquest, you don't need to be making money that badly. Your economy will grow and you can pay off multiple smaller loans with bigger ones, and with enemy treasuries like the Banks of India, Bank of Ming and Bank of Russia. Especially not if you're losing half a ducat a month. With 3500 in your treasury at half a ducat a month lost, it'll take 7000 months (583 years) for you to take your first loan. You're fine.

Idk about idea groups, but I hope you have quantity for cheaper armies. As for army comp, delete your cavs. Just...don't bother with cavs. As Ottomans your army forcelimit is large enough that for every cav you have, you could have about 3 infantry for the same amount of maintenance. So delete your cavs, go up to 20 infantry and get a full 10-20 stack of cannons for faster sieges. In a WC your primary concern is time, not money.

Also at a loan size of 1500 and growing, trust me, you're fine. There's a burgher privilege that gives 5 loans at 1% interest. So pass it and if you blow through that money, you can revoke it and pass it again for another 5 cheap loans and use it to pay off the older loans that'll start charging you 4% interest (in absence of other modifiers) once they refresh, or just as a fresh infusion of new cash. Remember to pay off the largest interest loans with your enemy treasuries, get an inflation reduction advisor when possible and buy down excess inflation if needed (keep it below like 7-13% if possible).

In fact the only reason I can see you're truly losing money is the advisors and honestly that's not a bad reason to be in the negatives.

 

[EarlKonrad]

You are paying 40 for fort maintenance. That is way too much to pay for it, meaning that you have a lot of forts (either 20 lvl 2 or 10 lvl 4). You don't need so many forts.

You have quite a small empire for 1633 which is part of the reason why your finances aren't amazing.

 

[Ekcrbe]

Being about break even on the budget also isn't too bad being Muslim because you get an extra money printing button. If I were in your position, I'd keep maxing out my piety toward legalism, and if I'm not about to take the next set of techs then debase currency and enforce faithful adherence for free money with no corruption. The mysticism bonuses are definitely strong, but you're the Ottomans—you don't need more military buffs, and you definitely don't need the free manpower—so take the money.

 

[st360]

I did a world conquest with zero forts (0) and I started as a one province nation. There is simply no need for more than 1-2 forts for a nation like the Ottomans that outnumbers every other nations army, and even that is arguable.

 

[k4sp3r00]

You should be making double the money from trade. TC high trade provinces until you get the merchant. Transfer from everywhere towards constantinople. Have light ships protecting trade in nodes where you still need more power or privateering high value nodes you don't have a merchant in if you don't have the merchants to transfer from the nodes you'd be protecting. You are under blockade maybe that is fucking your trade? It does give a -75% modifier.

Also as others have mentioned forts are generally not considered to be worth having. You can delete them and also should do so.

 

[grotaclas]

A few things that you could do to increase your income:

• add the trade centers and estuaries in the trade nodes outside your superregion to trade companies(and more provinces if needed) to get extra merchants to steer more trade to Constantinople (and the trade nodes which feed into Constantinople)
• increase the production development of your gold mine(s)
• get war reparations from your enemies
• when peacing out allies of your war enemies get them to either transfer their trade power (if they have trade power in nodes in which you have a merchant) or steer trade. Also get them to give you war reparations and money
• get more light ships to protect trade in important nodes(probably Alexandria in your situation)

 

[wielkiciensteam]

delete all forts

 

[iClipse]

I assume you know about the workshops+manufactories combo if you're going for a WC. And honestly, if you're going for a world conquest, you don't need to be making money that badly. Your economy will grow and you can pay off multiple smaller loans with bigger ones, and with enemy treasuries like the Banks of India, Bank of Ming and Bank of Russia. Especially not if you're losing half a ducat a month. With 3500 in your treasury at half a ducat a month lost, it'll take 7000 months (583 years) for you to take your first loan. You're fine.

Idk about idea groups, but I hope you have quantity for cheaper armies. As for army comp, delete your cavs. Just...don't bother with cavs. As Ottomans your army forcelimit is large enough that for every cav you have, you could have about 3 infantry for the same amount of maintenance. So delete your cavs, go up to 20 infantry and get a full 10-20 stack of cannons for faster sieges. In a WC your primary concern is time, not money.

Also at a loan size of 1500 and growing, trust me, you're fine. There's a burgher privilege that gives 5 loans at 1% interest. So pass it and if you blow through that money, you can revoke it and pass it again for another 5 cheap loans and use it to pay off the older loans that'll start charging you 4% interest (in absence of other modifiers) once they refresh, or just as a fresh infusion of new cash. Remember to pay off the largest interest loans with your enemy treasuries, get an inflation reduction advisor when possible and buy down excess inflation if needed (keep it below like 7-13% if possible).

In fact the only reason I can see you're truly losing money is the advisors and honestly that's not a bad reason to be in the negatives.

I'd like to agree, but courthouses have become so important that making at least some money is important. I mean, you can always take more loans of course, but it feels like you're creating more problems than fixing them by just relying on loans. In 1.29 I'd agree, you didn't needed to build any buildings at all. Most provinces had manufacturies upon conquering and governing capacity wasn't a thing. However, most AI don't build courthouses and you need the courthouse even in territories, unless you like being over governing capacity (which you don't, unless you like coalitions and paying more to core stuff).

So this results in me taking at least one money making idea group. Can be economic, Trade, but also stuff like Quantity that makes your armies cheaper. Of course, exceptions as always apply. If you're playing as the Netherlands, you really don't need more money, since you have easy and early access to the best trade node in the game.

 

[Cavalry]

- Fort expenses is quite high. You can use full forts in rebel zone and border only. Mothball the rest. And don't build max forth everywehere, it is good to build level 1 or level 2 forts in less important lands. (level 2 (+4 fort) is longer term because you get -1 fort for obsolete fort)

- Your trade income is not big because you didn't reach Malacca or Zanzibar yet. Try expand along a lucrative trade route first. And trade ideas is good to have at some time, because it give a tons of trade policies that together can double the trade income.

- On the state vs territory vs trade company, I found that:

1. For a stable and profit province, you will need at least accepted or same group culture or same religious (or high tolerance). Otherwise the province can be rebel when the war last a bit long or on low legitimacy. Make sure to add accepted cultures as you grow.

If you have at least one -2 unrest source, then you can get provinces without culture or religion more stable. The advisor that add - 2 unrest is one of my favourite.

2. For province too far from capital, or without state religion or accepted culture, it is ok to make them trade company or territory, check the Income vs expense per state, territory and trade company don't have state maintainance expense that increase with distance to capital.. Gold provinces should be state and right religion and low autonomy as soon as possible.

 

[fleetothemoon]

You are probably paying higher upkeep for your army due to reinforcement costs, particularly if your army is suffering major attrition or recovering from battles.

I wouldn't worry much about your finances though. During peace, you should be doing fine, esp if you deactivate forts and lower army maintenance. OE has a higher forcelimit due to their national ideas, but you still have to fund those troops.

 

[KaiserJohan]

Selling crownland and Muslim interaction/debase is two great cash injections. Use them regularly to kick start your economy.
You might be on a timer but as the Ottomans I wouldn't be worried. Setup your economy first for a smoother ride

 

[henriqueb1]

You have indeed expanded slowly, I loathe deleting forts, but you gotta expand if you are to keep them. As was mentioned, you need more merchants. You absolutely should not have one of them collecting in constantinople, and I don't think you need one in Aleppo, as it seems you control the Alexandria node (the other exit for Allepo trade). It's past time you broke the alliance with Timmy, they are only holding the indian trade from you. Maybe create a vassal in Persia and feed Timmy's lands to them. Same goes for Syria, vassalize or annex them (I would suggest annex).

 

[EarlKonrad]

You are probably paying higher upkeep for your army due to reinforcement costs, particularly if your army is suffering major attrition or recovering from battles.

Plus Janissaries are very expensive to reinforce.

 

[Blust]

Thanks you all for your answers, I will try to answer back to everyone :

My idea groups are religious / offensive / influence / admin / humanist and I was thinking going trade or quantity next.

I've deleted all my cav, build canons and deleted most of my forts too (paying 16 for all my forts now). Unrest is fine for now because I have +8 tolerance of true faith and -6 unrest, as well as -10 separatism (which can increase once I complete humanist for their policy with offensive).

I'm now at peace and earning 61 ducats a month, much better. I didn't notice if I was paying for reinforcing troops earlier though

I'm orthodox not muslim so the devaluate / use piety won't work ahah. Timurids is my vassal not my ally (all green nations are vassals of mine). France is my only ally at the moment. I'll try to eat India faster then with start of absolutism. Thanks you all again i'll keep you updated.

 

[wielkiciensteam]

Selling crownland and Muslim interaction/debase is two great cash injections.

Selling crownload is, from my experiance, worst way to make money. It slows you down on the road to reach +1 yearly and +max absolutism and it takes twice as much time and huge estate loyalty impact to recover lost crownland.
Best way to make money (and most gamey) is taking loans -> conquering/building things and declaring controlled bankruptcy.

 

[henriqueb1]

I was thinking going trade or quantity next

Trade would be my pick, as you already have offensive and it's not MP.

Timurids is my vassal not my ally (all green nations are vassals of mine).

Prioritize demanding transfer of trade power from them all then. You might not even need a merchant in Persia if it only flows to Aleppo and Crimean nodes, I don't quite remember where the Persia trade flows, but you get the idea, merchants are needed where trade is slipping away from your network, if a node flows only into nodes you have covered, you don't need a merchant there.

 

[EarlKonrad]

Selling crownload is, from my experiance, worst way to make money. It slows you down on the road to reach +1 yearly and +max absolutism and it takes twice as much time and huge estate loyalty impact to recover lost crownland.
Best way to make money (and most gamey) is taking loans -> conquering/building things and declaring controlled bankruptcy.

It may not be a good long term plan but selling crownland early on offers a very good ducats injection and cis always another ducats source that you can rely on if you are in need of money now. Yes, it will slow down your progress towards additional absolutism but the beautiful thing in 1.30 is that you can comfortably get to 100 Absolutism while also not having max bonus from Crownland, having some privileges still or even not going through Court and Country.

 

[Damedius]

It may not be a good long term plan but selling crownland early on offers a very good ducats injection and cis always another ducats source that you can rely on if you are in need of money now. Yes, it will slow down your progress towards additional absolutism but the beautiful thing in 1.30 is that you can comfortably get to 100 Absolutism while also not having max bonus from Crownland, having some privileges still or even not going through Court and Country.

Why would sell crownland when you could just take a loan?

 

[EarlKonrad]

Why would sell crownland when you could just take a loan?

No need to repay ducats and no 0.1 inflation hit. Besides, it isn't a case of either one or the other, you can take both