How to make Farmer/Labourer POP to migrate ?

[Enzo]

Hi,
when i read this article on wiki, i can see that : "POP will migrate from provinces with vacant slots if they have no cash reservs and can only buy lower than 25% subsistence good"

But, AFAIK farmer or labourer POP always have the necessary income to fill their subsistence need, only way to not obtain theses products (wool, cattle, grain, fruit and fish) would be a wm penury or an extraordinary high price, which is not obvious for these kind of product. so in a way, i guess it's impossible (at least for me) to make them migrate.

case is : playing Revolution as France, i've closed 2 RGO (grain & cattle) in one state and want the POP to migrate to the next province (in the same state) to fill free slot in another RGO (coal).

any view on how to proceed is welcome
thanks

 

[Corbett]

I've always found migration, both internal and external, to be sped by high militancy. Your mileage may vary, though, because high militancy is something to avoid and your people might just leave the country instead, which would be eminently counterproductive. At best, they could migrate to the wrong place or a colony.

 

[unmerged(77251)]

There might be an error here since I ALWAYS experience migration when following conditions are met:

1- All slots full
2- 0 cash & LOOSING money (not enough to buy all everyday goods)
3- Free slots in a prov within range.

This can be quite easily achieved in a populous state by adjusting tariffs/taxes after some pops splitting.
As of emigration, I could swear it depends first on militancy and second on ruling party: with over 5 MIL and conservatives in power, PRU/GER can be bled white, while the flow just stops when liberals come into power.

 

[Enzo]

The article make reference to the subsistence good, and you're speaking of everyday good. Are you sure, you've seen farmer/labourer migrate when their everyday good were not filled (loosing money) ? I've seen this only for craftmen/clerk.
If the starting province has its slot full, I think migration take place no matter if POP are loosing money or not.
Militancy is certainly a factor but i find it a bit too high paid for "internal move".

 

[noddysseus]

Best way to migrate labourer/farmer pops is to make sure your rgos are full.
If you want emmigration from your homeland states, I suggest filling and splitting pops in Provence, Pays de Loire and Val de Loire.

Then, ensuring that your poor taxes are somewhere around 50% and tariffs @ 100% your labourers and farmers should start losing their cash reserves once unemployed and then when they're gone, they'll begin to migrate.

 

[unmerged(77251)]

Hi,
case is : playing Revolution as France, i've closed 2 RGO (grain & cattle) in one state and want the POP to migrate to the next province (in the same state) to fill free slot in another RGO (coal).

any view on how to proceed is welcome
thanks

Just re-read your thread: closing RGOs (just as clothing Factories) does NOT work like full-slots RGOs; actually, its quite the opposite you get: closed RGO means free slots and can attract immigrants ! If you want your farmers to move, you will have to manually split your pops each time its possible until you get some unemployed one. Then, with taxes/tariffs correctly set, it shoudn t be a problem.

 

[unmerged(81390)]

Just re-read your thread: closing RGOs (just as clothing Factories) does NOT work like full-slots RGOs; actually, its quite the opposite you get: closed RGO means free slots and can attract immigrants ! If you want your farmers to move, you will have to manually split your pops each time its possible until you get some unemployed one. Then, with taxes/tariffs correctly set, it shoudn t be a problem.

Doesn't closed RGO mean no slots?

 

[OHgamer]

Doesn't closed RGO mean no slots?

No, it means 5 empty slots that if opened will become workable.

Closing RGOs does not compel the POPs to move to other RGOs. A full RGO, that is one with five slots filled to maximum (99K POP), does.

Unfortunately, that situation is rarely encountered until in a few countries late in game, except in China and India.

 

[Windwelder]

In the article Enzo mentions (on the VickyWiki site), there's a table with numbers concerning assimilation (i.e. USA/non-USA). How can one tweak these numbers?

I think that, playing as Sweden it is better to assimilate the Norwegian minority rather than have them emigrate because that would leave my industry wrecked as there are too many Norwegians in the the Sweden of 1830's (doh!). But the most generous figure on that table is 2,000 under the most favorable conditions. This is unreasonably low as there are numerous Norse POPs with 2,000+ and it's not possible to split them (and it would not have been very productive anyhow since the split POPs would still be over 2,000 in number). So I find myself stuck with a huge minority POP that is less-than-equal to my Swedish POPs in production.

 

[Eärendil]

In the article Enzo mentions (on the VickyWiki site), there's a table with numbers concerning assimilation (i.e. USA/non-USA). How can one tweak these numbers?

I'm pretty sure those are hardcoded and cannot be changed.

 

[unmerged(42174)]

In the article Enzo mentions (on the VickyWiki site), there's a table with numbers concerning assimilation (i.e. USA/non-USA). How can one tweak these numbers?

I think that, playing as Sweden it is better to assimilate the Norwegian minority rather than have them emigrate because that would leave my industry wrecked as there are too many Norwegians in the the Sweden of 1830's (doh!). But the most generous figure on that table is 2,000 under the most favorable conditions. This is unreasonably low as there are numerous Norse POPs with 2,000+ and it's not possible to split them (and it would not have been very productive anyhow since the split POPs would still be over 2,000 in number). So I find myself stuck with a huge minority POP that is less-than-equal to my Swedish POPs in production.

Since Norweigan is an accepted culture in Sweden, there is no production penalty for them, so they are just fine being Norwegian. Anyway, if You really want to assimilate them, you'll have to remove Norweigan from your national cultures in the save file. Then make the Norweigans unemployed, for example by promoting them to craftsmen and not have any factories in Norway. When they move to the factories (in Sweden), they will move in small groups, about 500-700, which is possible to assimilate.

 

[Enzo]

No, it means 5 empty slots that if opened will become workable.

Closing RGOs does not compel the POPs to move to other RGOs. A full RGO, that is one with five slots filled to maximum (99K POP), does.

Unfortunately, that situation is rarely encountered until in a few countries late in game, except in China and India.

as, you say OHgamer this situation is rarely encountered, at least in Europe. so how would you proceed to make your POP migrate to colony ?
for instance, as France, I've taken some province in North Brazil to get some tropical wood, but this province are not very populated. How can i bring some labourer over there ? only thing i can think of is to create a factory in this province and convert some french craftsmen who should migrate before labourer and after migration reconvert them to labourer ...
i don't believe French labourer/ farmer pop will ever migrate as French rgo are far from being fully manned.

 

[unmerged(20628)]

In Revolutions it is possible to delete an RGO ingame just as you delete a factory, as I noticed recently. That should make the pops move (I haven´t tried it out myself because it felt gamey)

 

[Enzo]

good point It works, effectively if you delete a RGO the associated POP begin to move slowly, even in colony. I expect to see "unassigned" as work occupation after rgo deletion, actually no. i see either "trust", "mafia" or "machine politics" any idea of what it is ?

 

[Ericus1]

Corruption in the game. 'Deleting' RGO's seems to cause a bug, and I've found that once it happens all my future saves will crash for that game. Doing so should be avoided at all costs. If you absolutely MUST reduce a RGO, edit the save and change the size to 1.

As for forcing internal migrations, the only way I've really found is to have five pops working every slot in an RGO, although each pop only has to be 10K, and then leaving additional pops unemployed. They will migrate, although you need every RGO in the state full to get them to leave the state, from what I've found.

I've found this to be very efficient at controlling immigration to spread it out more realistically as well as forcing excess population back out of over-populated states.

 

[OHgamer]

Deleting RGOs is a bug known to the developers.

Don't delete the RGOs.

 

[Enzo]

OK, it's true that it sounds weird deleting a RGO, but how can we do to encourage these POP to take up a boat and install in colony ? to have full RGO is, I guess, quite impossible for west European countries...
Ericus1, have you manage to do this with one of the great power in Europe ?

 

[Ivan Rogov]

I found if you split a craftsmen or clerk pop and if *all* factory slot in that province is filled, they will migrate across the country or sometimes to a colony *if there is an open factory slot there.* They migrate in dribs and drabs, but I have been able to get a 10,000 craftsman pop across the country. Unfortunately, for colonies, you have to have *all* the slots full in the mainland. Getting pops to emigrate to colonies works best when you have 3 prerequisites: a full RGO in the province, a minority POP, and one of the techs that increases minority emigration (I forget what it is, it occurs late-game like Social Darwinism or somesuch.)

 

[RELee]

Do you mean Biased Multiculturalism?

 

[Agenor]

Does anyone know what determines the destination of migrating pops, i.e. which state or colony they will choose to go to?

In my last game (1.04, not Rev.) as Prussia/Germany I was amazed to find them migrating to Chad, which in reality was one of the least likely places in Africa to attract European settlers. Maybe they went there because it was the biggest colony? In Revolutions, does life-rating help determine colony destination? If so, that sort of silliness wouldn't happen.