How to learn PVP?

[Konfuchie]

I've started playing PVP couple of days ago after I got bored with skirmish and I came to conclusion that most of the things I have learned playing against AI just don't apply to multiplayer. People use very different decks and strategies.

So far I am getting annihilated. I have very little experience from war game, and I didn't play any other Eugen games, even tho I play a lot of strategy in general. I tried to learn from every engagement and adapt, but it is still not working. I call it a success if I don't bleed more than 2 point for the whole game. I did win once, against a guy who didn't even deploy before launch so it wasn't much of a challenge.

Most frustrating thing is that sometimes I look at the replay and there is nothing to learn. The map and decks choice established an advantage, and than I am simply not better than experienced players to exploit any opening enough. Than when I adapt my deck I get hit with completely different map, deck and strategy and defeated again. So I guess certain balance is a must.

Please give me some advice. How do I git gud? Should I concentrate on 1 or 2 decks and get good with them or should I use them all to learn strengths and weaknesses of my opponents well? Should I maybe drop quick-match and try 2v2 and 3v3? I'm slowly getting disheartened and a couple of victories would change that completely.

Note: I do understand importance of recon, command and veterancy.

 

[Stoffen]

Your analysis is on point.

Games against AI has nothing to do with the "real" world of PvP.
Also, 1v1 plays dramtically different to 2v2 and upwards.

First off, you need to watch people play who are experienced in the game - I recommend Hesko & firestarter with the latter being a good wargame player, the first being the better SD player.

Generally, I would say start out with the infantry divisions.
For 1v1, the Canadians are super strong. As is the 101st but I find them a bit gimicky.
For 2v2 upwards I like the Scots a lot. 2nd ID is more powerful, but they require more knowledge to use and thus are not as "pick-up-and-play".

For the germans, Pegasus is good in 1v1 but 3rd falls is simply the best in the business. But in the same sense as 2nd ID, Falls require more knowledge.
2v2 upwards actually also includes Pegasus and Falls.

I would play allies as they are the easiest to play (imho).
Also one key thing is taking position in the beginning of the game. I find that very few of my games go back and forth. Mostly whoever takes the lead in the beginning will win. Generally, use a lot of support weapons as infantry divsions such as MGs and mortars. Make sure to have cheap infantry scattered around to constantly apply pressure on the germans and their expensive units - they simply cant cover everything!

 

[Grimnir]

Multiplayer (PVP) is great fun and is what Steel Division is all about! The learning curve for both the Wargame-series and/or Steel Division can be a bit steep, and you'll get annihilated in the beginning; but after a while you will learn and it will be enjoyable. Just don't give up.

As for myself I normally can't play other RTS games like Starcraft, COH etc multiplayer as they are to fast, but the Wargame series and Steel Division is just the perfect pace for me. It is more or less the only game I play MP.

As for some useful advice, what I did was watching replayes on Youtube. I can warmly recommend VulcanHDGaming's channel, he has lots of replayes with useful comments. He also has videos that introduces the different decks.

Appart from that I would recommend reading the forums, there should be quite the few tips for new players here (I think).

 

[Konfuchie]

Actually won first game against a competent player. I was so happy I was looking at the breakdown of kills after the game so long. I used Pegasus division against 3rd armored. Waching firestrike was actually very helpful, how he moves units with attack command a lot and his playstyle in general.

 

[AmberT]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ_IoFEnh08AbL4YLB976LQ
My channel.

 

[Kampfkekskrieger]

For years, I made adapting in Wargame:

I was winning a game, and tried to play my succesful tactic again, but you often cannot win the same way against a good player, if it was succesful against a weak player, and you can ALSO not use the strategy of the good player against one weaker player, because he will find it unfair, if he cannot find a point in your strategy, that he can understand and determine as a example to copy from.

I like it more, if they 'agree' with your win (and learning a new tactics from you for example), than if they value you as an unfair and also dont see a point playing against you, because their mind bounces off the seemingly flawless strategy, and they cannot find a way to trick that out later.

So I adapted to my wins, and if I lost, I changed my worst weakness, so I spend a lot of time in deck building and changed after every game (and never came back. The deck was old and meh... sometimes even before I played it). But every game, It showed a new weakness somewhere, that I had to fix, for which I had to trade off effectiveness in covering my old one. I never came to the point where I could finally play a deck for longer time. But thats NOT due to there is none, but I was SO courious about improving something, that I dropped even my best deck and went further to find additional advantages.

In a big roundup: I landad at if you play certain units well, that makes a more cost effective way of solving a problem, so you could put more points on the weaker points, and with more experience, you could e.g. afford to remove some infantry because you could do more with less, and the free energy could be used for other things you were weaker in.

Also, you generally switch from much defense and little offensiveness in the begin to more offensiveness and less def. because the offensiveness wipes out the need of def, but is only possible, if you are sure about that you can do that.

A next step later, you are capable of drop the defense at some points, because you are sure, that you can handle the weak point just in time with the fluid money and troops on the field somehow. This is very powerful, because you can intentionally make a weak point and lure the opponent to use that, and prepare to trap his approach on a from you determined point of time.

The best hint I can give you is, that you have a part of your tactics that you 'work' on, make experiments, play risky, as long as it doesn't hit you too much, and another part that you just 'play', and you only change that if you have power free.
That even means to let your good and best tactics fall sooner or later, and exchange them with better approaches in almost every game.

Because I am SO courious about becoming better, I go a very risky way that makes me loosing a lot, because instead of playing save and sure win, with the same tactic that was succesful, I 'open' that tactic to improvise on the field, often a decision of split seconds that often fail me the game but you NEED to be creative, and that is especially hard, if you get disrespected for how weak you play, because you try something new. For me it even goes SO far, that I let me hit as hard as I can 'survive' mentaly, and am more happy, the better my opponent is, because those drop better tactics - yes, its prey for you! I see it exactly like that!
Its just like in Diablo: The good opponents drop more gems. So a loss against them dont care, but you have a replay!

So, the more you have the power to experiment and 'to' dont care about losses, the faster you become dangerous.
A player, whose tactic one cannot determine is always more dangerous than a pedestal player, that is a champ, but he 'has' to stay on his throne, because he is afraid of loosing k/d. That jails him on where he stands.

If you have the courage to drop your sorrows and 'take' the challenge to find a new way, as much as you can and everywhere you can, the reward is an unusualy high amount of fun and 'quality' in your (fewer) matches, so your time has more value.

Come for the last parts later, if dont get everything I said right now. This is some way of I play ranked and I love it.

 

[Tank Girl]

There are several ways.

Start 4vs4 games with 3 Medium AI on ur side vs. 2 Medium + 2 Easy on the other side. If you can win that games regularly, you can go to PvP.

Currently, the best environment (if you dont have good friends who are no cheese wanna win idiots) is 10vs10 on Colombelles Map. Its a small map with many players.
You can focus on your units without the need to hold a large frontline. Focus on different units in different games, like providing air cover with interceptors, use bombers, use artillery, slowly try to understand tanks and so on.

Usually a player has a strong side, be it infantry, tanks or planes. Planes are the easiest to use by far, infantry and tanks are a lot more difficult. Artillery is also quite easy, especially using things like axis SK 18.
Just look how effective u are in Conquest or Destruction games. Having an even KD is a good start in PvP, no matter if you win or lose.
See if units u buy kill enough to bring back their cost.

Currently, the most cost effective deck I found for Axis is Pegasus Division. The first 10-20 minutes I provide air cover with up to 7 interceptors and micro the hell out of them, using them in pairs of 2 or 3 to great effect. Then I bring SK 18 and Jagdpanther and strike where the enemy is strongest.

 

[Sarin]

There are several ways.

Start 4vs4 games with 3 Medium AI on ur side vs. 2 Medium + 2 Easy on the other side. If you can win that games regularly, you can go to PvP.

Currently, the best environment (if you dont have good friends who are no cheese wanna win idiots) is 10vs10 on Colombelles Map. Its a small map with many players.
You can focus on your units without the need to hold a large frontline. Focus on different units in different games, like providing air cover with interceptors, use bombers, use artillery, slowly try to understand tanks and so on.

Usually a player has a strong side, be it infantry, tanks or planes. Planes are the easiest to use by far, infantry and tanks are a lot more difficult. Artillery is also quite easy, especially using things like axis SK 18.
Just look how effective u are in Conquest or Destruction games. Having an even KD is a good start in PvP, no matter if you win or lose.
See if units u buy kill enough to bring back their cost.

Currently, the most cost effective deck I found for Axis is Pegasus Division. The first 10-20 minutes I provide air cover with up to 7 interceptors and micro the hell out of them, using them in pairs of 2 or 3 to great effect. Then I bring SK 18 and Jagdpanther and strike where the enemy is strongest.

Yea none of that is good advice.

Don't provide air cover with 7 interceptors in the first 10-20 minutes and then just concentrate on microing fighters...

OP already said playing AI didn't help him for multiplayer, so why would you recommend him playing versus AI, with his own AI set to be better than the other AI as help...

Planes are not the easiest thing to use effectively, can be one of the hardest as the points sink and ability to lose units means that they are easy to call out, hard to use in a way that doesn't handicap the rest of your game. Especially buying 7 Interceptors in Phase A and B....




To OP. Just keep playing. Playing is the thing that will make you better.
When you watch the replay look for specific things, not just the overview.

WHY did that MG kill those infantry (it fires at 800, the infantry fire at 400, the infantry got pinned and didn't retreat).
That teaches you right there to concentrate on keeping your MG at range, not to let your infantry move into places MGs can shoot but you can't, to retreat your infantry.

Look for situations like that from the opponents point of view. "Ohh he killed all that stuff because he did .... " and then add that to your game.

I would not recommend just spamming fighters, and playing AI with the levels turned down, and not even trying to win just looking for K/D.
It is going to teach you to be bad.

 

[Tank Girl]

bla bla bla

Yeah, sounds like a good advice to listen to advice from a guy that is named after some chemical fighting substance used in genocides...

I am just providing options for the OP to chose from.

@OP:
another nature of this game is: everybody has his own truth. Playing 1vs1 PvP is another dimension really. 2vs2-4vs4 is different in another way, quitters and pubstomps are problem there.
10vs10 on Sword is one thing, 10vs10 on colombelles another with dense arty and planes (that Sarin guy obviously never played 10vs10 at all). In any case you have to learn every map and game size in a different way.

 

[Protosszocker]

I am just providing options for the OP to chose from.

@OP:
another nature of this game is: everybody has his own truth. Playing 1vs1 PvP is another dimension really. 2vs2-4vs4 is different in another way, quitters and pubstomps are problem there.
10vs10 on Sword is one thing, 10vs10 on colombelles another with dense arty and planes (that Sarin guy obviously never played 10vs10 at all). In any case you have to learn every map and game size in a different way.

Still if you are good in 1v1 and especially in 2v2 you are also at least decent in 10v10. I would not recommend collombelle 10v10 for learning because no other mode is similar to this shit spam map. But Yeah sword is okay because you learn how to play against 1 opponent but you dont need to cover as much space as you need to in 1v1 or 2v2.

 

[Stoffen]

Actually won first game against a competent player. I was so happy I was looking at the breakdown of kills after the game so long. I used Pegasus division against 3rd armored. Waching firestrike was actually very helpful, how he moves units with attack command a lot and his playstyle in general.

Thats great!
Keep in the grind. You will improve really fast

 

[Jamminsession]

My advice:
Find a mentor this will acelerate your progres like 1000 %.
Play with friends on TS.
Be mobile
Play some Tactical Games on low or very low income.

 

[Protosszocker]

Watch Hesko or Tournament replays on YT.

 

[local-festival]

I've heard @ZhukoDim is looking for an apprentice to mentor.

 

[Protosszocker]

I've heard @ZhukoDim is looking for an apprentice to mentor.

I heard its the other way around #zhukonoob