How to know strength of enemy empires?

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Admiral

Second Lieutenant
Jan 4, 2017
184
109
I just started my first war and seeking battle I pushed my military fleets into the nearest enemy planet only to be met by a force of comparable albeit slightly larger fleet power. Not dissuaded, I retreated to friendly space because figured I could just rebuild my military and come back stronger. And so then I build some more ships, refit the ones I already have, then send them out again, only to, again, be met by a force slightly more powerful than them.

This has happened 3 or 4 times now. No matter what I do, no matter how aggressively I build up my ships or how much I upgrade them, I always end up a couple hundred fleet power beneath them at every single encounter. To specify how much this arms race has gotten out of hand, consider that when I started the war with 16 ships and now I'm at 34, and now I'm looking down the barrel of 40-ship enemy fleets coming at me.

I can only come to two conclusions: firstly, that the game has rubberbaning AI or two, that this is a honest arms race wherein the winner of the war will be the one who can build their military up faster and bigger.

On one hand Stellaris doesn't seem to be a rubberbanding game, but on the other I can't possibly see how my enemy is ahead of me: I have several more colonized worlds (5-2 in favor of me) and way more mining stations than they do (I've even destroyed some of theirs for around 1 warscore each).

Granted, I know fleet limit is really more of an efficiency threshold than a hard limit, but the idea of them simply going over their limit doesn't explain it either. For reference I have more planets with spaceports than they have stars in their empire, so they should be much lower; if they're pushing themselves over a tiny fleet limit, then I can't possibly see how they'd have the minerals to create and maintain 40-ship, 1.4k power fleet.

It seems I'm just out of options, being a much bigger empire who somehow ends up inexplicably outgunned and outnumbered every single time by an enemy that can't possibly have the resources to keep up with, let alone surpass me. I presume that my mineral production is superior (how could it not be?) so I could just hurl myself into battles I'll lose but know I can rebuild faster than them or perhaps starve them of minerals constantly rebuilding themselves, but that all depends on knowing how much they have and how much they make. How do I know this? The lack of information on other empires is pretty shocking to me.

So what do I do? How am I supposed to figure out how much resources, fleet limit, technology, etc. an empire has? This seems drastically different from CK2.

In CK2, pre-invasion planning always involved checking out the enemy's income level and treasury (so you knew whether that 20k army would turn into a 30k army with mercs) as well as the size of their military overall. When war began you could see their expenses, assuring yourself that they'd go bankrupt and their mercs would rebel if you could just survive for a few more months.

But in Stellaris, it seems you have to settle for vague descriptors like "superior" or "equivalent". Forgive me if that's essentially useless "information"; am I just missing out on something I could do?
 

YagabodooN

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I have a feeling the AI cheats in the early game to prevent it from being too easy to snowball out of control.

The only way I have been able to deal with this so far is to choke out enemy empires with frontier outposts and eat them in the mid game when their economy cant keep up anymore.
 

Admiral

Second Lieutenant
Jan 4, 2017
184
109
I have a feeling the AI cheats in the early game to prevent it from being too easy to snowball out of control.

The only way I have been able to deal with this so far is to choke out enemy empires with frontier outposts and eat them in the mid game when their economy cant keep up anymore.
Thanks for the advice, although I have to say in the meantime I actually won the war, and in a way that only raises more questions.

Basically, around the fifth time I was rebuilding and refitting my fleet I started getting peace offers. Obviously I declined since I wanted to go for vassalization and didn't want my first war to just end in the "meh" of a white peace, but this puzzled me greatly: their fleet was larger than mine and they had more warscore; what were they afraid of? Soon peace offers come flooding in, and I have two in the notification list at any given time.

Then my neighbor also declares war on my enemy. I figured this was what would finally push me over the top, considering my enemy-of-my-enemy had about 800 military power in his fleet. I prepare for a decisive battle, only for that to basically not happen. With nary a single enemy warship in sight, me and my ally to just steam straight for their capital, take out the lone orbiting starport with the loss of only a few starships, bombard the planet's fortifications all the way down to 0 then secure the surface without losing a single ground unit.

"What happened?" I thought.

My best hypothesis for the disappearance of what seems the entire enemy navy was that I was "winning" the arms race from the resource perspective i.e. I wasn't building as many ships as my enemy but I could actually afford them. In that sense I believe the peace offers came in as a response to impending economic collapse (more specifically, having to maintain more starships than me with a much lower fleet limit) and since I refused them my enemy was forced to disband most (or possibly even all) of their warships. Thus when the final invasion came I met no resistance since the arms race had driven the enemy into bankruptcy.
 

Grubsnik

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Either their economy collapsed and then disbanded, or their economy collapsed and then the other empires fleet destroyed their fleet outside of your sensor range. Also, just to be clear. Until those 4 new colonies of yours are quite well developed, they rarely gain you much, other than a higher fleet cap. So his economy might well have been comparable to yours, it mainly comes down to how many mining stations you could build in your respective capital systems. I've had starts with 6 energy & 11 minerals, and I've had starts with absolutely nothing in my capital system.

Ideally, what you do is lure their fleet back to your capital system and then use a FTL-trap defense station to crush their fleet between your own fleet and your spaceport. Other than that, you just have to neglect your science for a while and focus everything on energy and minerals so you can field the biggest corvetteswarm
 

Bob_the_Insane

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Also I think some of the (aggressive) AI government types will build beyond their fleet limits just like the player can. Plus you might have also had an "advanced start" empire next door...
 

Sheriff Godwin Law

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So what do I do? How am I supposed to figure out how much resources, fleet limit, technology, etc. an empire has? This seems drastically different from CK2.

Short answer, you open up your diplomacy list, you sort by power level, and that will tell you in broad strokes whether your number is bigger or smaller than theirs. Not by how much, since they're probably going to say 'equivalent' but given that I've seen 'equivalent' empires have 50% more fleet CP in their doomstack than me it's still worthwhile.

Long answer, get open borders, build a construction ship with the biggest scanner and propulsion system available and go look for their doomstack.
 

Umega

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If you don't mind using mods, there is a mod that adds more map modes and gives more information about other empires including fleet strength.