How to keep the AI from popping the L-Gate way too early?

[klopkr]

I've been playing several games with my friend now and we consistently keep running into the grey tempest way too early. In my last run I got them before the galactic market even finished. It's not me opening the gates, I wouldn't anymore without a 20K fleet minimum. These AI's open them up while we're all still at 5K fleets total.

What settings and what can I do to make the AI stop opening the L-Gate? They always get destroyed instantly and they will NEVER support declaring it a galactic crisis.

Before anyone suggests it. I don't want to use mods, and I'd rather not turn off the DLC because I want the space monsters.

 

[Rakonat]

You really can't do anything to directly stop the AI from popping L-Gates save for surrounding them and closing borders with them so their science ships can't find more L gate insights, and even then they might just Experimental Jump.

Having had the AI release Grey tempest several times, my own real advice is to always put Bastion Stations with maximum defense/weapon modules and defense platforms, preferably Torpedo Equipped or Hangars since GT has excellent balance of Shields and Armor, and their weapons synergize to destroy armor and generally ignore shields. Flak/Point Defense is also good to sprinkle in since they love their fighters, just don't bother with Ion Cannons since the L-Gate is right next to the station you won't get much value from the extended range. If/When you get the warning that another empire is ready to open the gates, pull a fleet back to any L-gates you own, ideally ones with crystal armor.

The important thing to remember is that in Galaxies with more than one L-Gate (Larger than Tiny sized) is that the Gate that opened first is the last one to get invaded by the Tempest, which is why the AI tends to rush L gates as the Tempest will ravage other empires before trying to hit them.

 

[klopkr]

Is there any way to slow them down with empire settings? I'm getting tempest within decades of the game start. There's just nothing to do when the tempest comes when I only have 5k fleet total. I don't want to play with No AI and small galaxies, there's gotta be other ways right?

 

[Losttruppen]

Maximum AI empires will fill the galaxy and limit the number of anomalies a given empire can receive. Other than that there isn't much you can do, some empires just get lucky and get all the insights.

Rush for flak and evasion destroyers? They only spawn with about 5 escorts and a battlecruiser so they do have a lot of fleet power bloat with ~60k FP in only 6 ships and rely heavily on strikecraft and the big laser. You're right though 20k seems like the minimum you need to fight them without suffering a lot of losses.

You can also try to open it first and your gate will be locked for a few years. I don't know if that applies to multiple gates though.

 

[Rakonat]

Is there any way to slow them down with empire settings? I'm getting tempest within decades of the game start. There's just nothing to do when the tempest comes when I only have 5k fleet total. I don't want to play with No AI and small galaxies, there's gotta be other ways right?

Shouldn't be getting that quickly unless you're playing Grand Admiral and some mods. Earliest I've ever scene the AI open the L-Gates was 2285 and that was an advanced empire who controlled about 1/4 of the galaxy with 2 isolation FEs giving them a buffer against the genocidals that should have been targetting them.

 

[klopkr]

Shouldn't be getting that quickly unless you're playing Grand Admiral and some mods. Earliest I've ever scene the AI open the L-Gates was 2285 and that was an advanced empire who controlled about 1/4 of the galaxy with 2 isolation FEs giving them a buffer against the genocidals that should have been targetting them.

I'll be honest I do have tech set to faster and all the AI. Does tech make them pop it way too early?

 

[prismaticmarcus]

I'll be honest I do have tech set to faster and all the AI. Does tech make them pop it way too early?

i'd say so

 

[Troyen]

I'll be honest I do have tech set to faster and all the AI. Does tech make them pop it way too early?

There is a repeatable engineering tech to gain an L-Gate insight, so if your tech speed is super fast, chances are the AI are researching that tech multiple times. I don't think I've ever seen the AI open L-Gates before 2300 on Commodore/Captain difficulty, and that's with an earlier midgame/endgame year.

 

[Vorpaliminal]

How early is your mid game date? The AI gets bonuses to L-gate insight discovery once mid game comes around, and then accelerates further in late game.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I'll be honest I do have tech set to faster and all the AI. Does tech make them pop it way too early?

I'm not sure, I did my last game on 2.5x tech cost and they still opened it in 2330 which is about when I expect them to. They were, of course, hilariously unready for the Grey Tempest (I was only just ready, fortunately because 2/3 of the galaxy's L gates were in my space despite being reasonably small, but then I'd also had to deal with the great khan right next to me so I was seriously cannoned up. The run ended when the Unbidden spawned, early as usual, in a dead end with only three jumps between them and my capital so I couldn't defeat them by local outnumbering because they only had one way to send all their fleets so they stuck together with everything and I'd be crippled by the time I let them spread out.)

 

[Franton]

Shouldn't be getting that quickly unless you're playing Grand Admiral and some mods. Earliest I've ever scene the AI open the L-Gates was 2285 and that was an advanced empire who controlled about 1/4 of the galaxy with 2 isolation FEs giving them a buffer against the genocidals that should have been targetting them.

Playing GA right now and got the warning shortly after my home world went boom, around 2240! I quickly sent all of my fleets south and invaded the whole empire within 6-7 years - that's how 'strong' they were. Nowhere near the strength you indicate, and they were listed below average in the victory list before I declared war on them. Judging by the mostly useless remains from ship combats (disruptors? really??) and the low number of foo pops on their planets they weren't really strong at anything!

P.S.: while I have most settings other than difficulty at default, I did set mid game start to 2225 - maybe that was causing it...

 

[MonzUn]

We discussed this a bit last week and made some tweaks that should make this less likely to happen, while still maintaining the threat of the AI opening them before you so that you can't wait around if you want the goodies inside. If it looks good in internal testing, you might see some changes in this behavior in the next patch.

 

[hart30]

A mid game crisis strength slider would also greatly help for this case.

 

[klopkr]

We discussed this a bit last week and made some tweaks that should make this less likely to happen, while still maintaining the threat of the AI opening them before you so that you can't wait around if you want the goodies inside. If it looks good in internal testing, you might see some changes in this behavior in the next patch.

Oh so it's not just a mistake on my side.

That's good to know. I've gotten to points where I'm rushing the L-gate and building up forces for it in the entire early game just to fight off the grey tempest when the AI inevitably opens it.

Are the weightings working correctly btw? I know the grey tempest has the highest weight but the non tempest should still be more common in total. I haven't pinged to check every game I start but I feel like i'm getting really bad tempest RNG lately when in the past I almost never got the tempest ever.

Please please look into the galactic community weighting for declaring the tempest a crisis. If the AI has lost a system or two to them they should see it as a crisis. I've actually run a few of my bad tempest games until galactic death and couldn't pass the resolution until there were very few AI empires left. I'm not sure if the tempest would be such an issue if I could expect the AI not to lose completely unless I personally stop it.

 

[Masked Ermine]

We discussed this a bit last week and made some tweaks that should make this less likely to happen, while still maintaining the threat of the AI opening them before you so that you can't wait around if you want the goodies inside. If it looks good in internal testing, you might see some changes in this behavior in the next patch.

Just let us toggle the damned things' outcome like the end game crisis if people want to play with the tempest on, fine, let them, if they want to play and get the drakes let them, if they want to get gray, fine if they want to get nothing, let them, if they want it to be a roll of the dice, let them. Or let us be able to shut off the L-gates and keep the space monsters. I find the L-gates/L-cluster the most disposable component of distant stars because A: nanites are just meh as a resource and B: the Gray Tempest is a literal game/time waster. I get fed up playing a game for hours, finally having a decent run only to be f-ed over because the AI is a god damned idiot and the dice roll Gray Tempest which proceeds to burn the galaxy down because the AI has 10K and the Tempest base is 60K; it's not fun, it's not cute, it's not a 'get good moment' if I play as if the tempest is always going to be the outcome I'm going to body the AI, if I play to keep pace with the AI or with the community then the Tempest is going to burn the whole galaxy down. Five minutes ago I just walked away from a game that I'd been playing on and off for the last three days. It was going great was having fun....then the Tempest was released. You know what isn't fun...having a literal dice roll end a game...literally the DM getting mad and saying 'rocks fall everyone dies'. I only keep the damned DLC on for the space monsters....which are far more interesting.

 

[miragelord54]

We discussed this a bit last week and made some tweaks that should make this less likely to happen, while still maintaining the threat of the AI opening them before you so that you can't wait around if you want the goodies inside. If it looks good in internal testing, you might see some changes in this behavior in the next patch.

since 3.0 came out I played 10 solo games and 9 of them the tempests popped up within 50 years in game. It ruins gameplay and enjoyment if it always ruining the immersion, even if I can deal with them, they will still devastate most of the galaxy before they can be detained. Today Just played 2 games with my friend, both times the tempest came in under 50 years still. We said screw it.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

since 3.0 came out I played 10 solo games and 9 of them the tempests popped up within 50 years in game. It ruins gameplay and enjoyment if it always ruining the immersion, even if I can deal with them, they will still devastate most of the galaxy before they can be detained. Today Just played 2 games with my friend, both times the tempest came in under 50 years still. We said screw it.

don't take it personally. RNGesus really doesn't hate you. my last three games have had the Dessanu

 

[Ferrus Animus]

One big part is that the L-Gates are oppened by getting insights. Insights are gained from different sources, like certain anomalies, which spawn for every empire seperately. So there's always a chance one empire simply gets "lucky" add to that other sources like destroying pirate bases (which the AI usually gets regularly due to not securing its trade routes) and other sources the AI might partake in, and there's simply a massive RNG factor for when AIs can open the gates.

I have had games where I could have opened the gates 20 years in and if you have a dozen Ai empires, one is often going to get "lucky".

 

[Question]

It should be pretty easy to mod the game so that the AI doesnt open them before the mid game year (or make it only possible to open it after the mid game year)

 

[MathyM]

A mid game crisis strength slider would also greatly help for this case.

I don’t think it would. You would have to know before even starting the run that the AI will open the L-Gates sooner than expected.