How to Increase Learning stat as Pagan?

[Kurblius]

So I'm about to convert to Hellenic, and I want to join a Lodge, but I've accumilated alot of powerful hermetic artifacts that require a learning of 20 to activate. I don't want to lose access to them. Like the handgun, for example. Are there ways to boost learning stats as Pagan? According to the Wiki I know there is a pagan religious book "Book of the Spirits" that I can write that can boost learning. But other than that, are there any modifiers/decisions that could help?

My next heir is a genius with decent stats all around, so it's likely I'd only need a couple more learning points to put me over the edge.

 

[Okawal]

Well the only true way to stack a lot of learning with no lodges is the WoL DLC.
If you have it you can choose Scholarship (for the Nerconomicon and the Mystic-Lifesytletrait) [a total of 3 + 5 + 2 = 10 learning].
Or for a even higher amountion if you dont select the Mystic-Lifestyletrait and switch to theology (so you keep the Weird Scholar modifier) and then take the Theologian-Lifestyletrait [after that switch back to Scholarship for a total of 11 Learning].

Edit: Necro was 5 learning.
Edit 2: if you reform hellenic you can choose temporal for the 2 diplo / 2 learning scepter

 

[Kurblius]

Well the only true way to stack a lot of learning with no lodges is the WoL DLC.
If you have it you can choose Scholarship (for the Nerconomicon and the Mystic-Lifesytletrait) [a total of 3 + 5 + 2 = 10 learning].
Or for a even higher amountion if you dont select the Mystic-Lifestyletrait and switch to theology (so you keep the Weird Scholar modifier) and then take the Theologian-Lifestyletrait [after that switch back to Scholarship for a total of 11 Learning].

Edit: Necro was 5 learning.
Edit 2: if you reform hellenic you can choose temporal for the 2 diplo / 2 learning scepter

Wait - just to clarify, I mean I intend to join a Lodge. Can I get learning from lodges? I thought it was just all martial stats.

I don't have Ways of Life. I know about scepter, yeah, but I really can't afford to go Temporal. I need to be able to excommunicate.

 

[Okawal]

ahh sry was meant to say societies and not lodges.
One thing you could do would be to chose Ancestor Worship (if the Doctrine is selected) and select the wisdom option for a chance of a pet owl (+1 health +2learning)
or use the character-finder to find the waterclock / classic of poetry artifact and raid the owners to obtain them.

 

[junassa]

This doesn't apply to Hellenism (as far as I know) but if your religion had access to "patron diety" you can select the diety that gives you learning, and you'll randomly get an increase in learning or (if your learning is low enough) you'll go through events that will boost learning

 

[Gender]

The Hermetic artifacts will help you qualify for their own use. That is, if you start in the Hermetic Society (activating all the hermetic artifacts that require 20 learning OR being in the society), and you have 20+ learning from the artifacts, you'll keep being able to use them after leaving

 

[knppel]

I've found myself unable to use most top tier hermetic artifacts in my recent Roman game. You can't dodge a heir with 20 diplomacy and martial because he has "only" 15 in learning, and eventually the plan with putting in five years to get a necronomicon did not work out all the time.

Without Way of Life, boosting the stat further in predictable time on its own is going to be tricky, as scholarschip focus would be the patent recipe for that.

Joing hermetics and leveling up there to activate artifacts and then leave and join the warrior lodge is something that will very rarely fit in a lifetime of a ruler, and if it does, not give you that much leftover time to reap the profit of it, unless you're doing an immortal-run.

So yeah just get the smith to make a hammer I guess

 

[Kurblius]

The Hermetic artifacts will help you qualify for their own use. That is, if you start in the Hermetic Society (activating all the hermetic artifacts that require 20 learning OR being in the society), and you have 20+ learning from the artifacts, you'll keep being able to use them after leaving

If this is true, that could solve everything. Will try it when the time comes and let you know results.

 

[knppel]

Should indeed work, if you look up the hermetic items in detail you'll find that most of them have as active-requirement to either have a specific stat in learning, or to be member in the hermetic society (and hold a certain rank for some items).

 

[Crimson Grog]

I've found myself unable to use most top tier hermetic artifacts in my recent Roman game. You can't dodge a heir with 20 diplomacy and martial because he has "only" 15 in learning, and eventually the plan with putting in five years to get a necronomicon did not work out all the time.

This is actually one of the reasons why I decide early on if any of my characters are going to join the Hermetics. The plan is usually to either 1) never join the Hermetics or 2) once I join the Hermetics on one character, only join the Hermetics on all future characters. This ensures that all of my future heirs are able to use the Hermetic artifacts.

Not joining the Hermetics but continuing to use their artifacts is easier if you're Sunni (+5 learning from Mutazilite) or if you're Christian and you join a monastic society that focuses on the learning stat. It also works nicely if you join societies in the reverse order: go monastic for the first few characters until all of your provinces are converted to your religion and you have a few religious artifacts, then go Hermetics for all subsequent characters (religious artifacts have no society requirements).

Overall, the learning/Hermetic requirement on the Hermetic artifacts + the Jade Dragon ability for anyone to compose books + the new limit of 4 equipped books means that I rarely join the Hermetics on Christian or pagan characters.

 

[knppel]

Yeah, I kind of found out the hard way and now have a series of old mythical books no one in the realm understands in the library as Caesar.
I've joined the satanists now instead first as christian in every game I started since- religious artifacts, while powerful, typically have a religion-condition to be active, thus working towards them is useless too if the long term plan is a hellenic revival.

I've yet to try out, another idea was to compose the hermetic books to only have tier 3, allowing later characters with 15 learning to use them while still reaping good boni.

 

[moscal]

Go to cannibal - eat smart people - increase learnign ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Crimson Grog]

I've yet to try out, another idea was to compose the hermetic books to only have tier 3, allowing later characters with 15 learning to use them while still reaping good boni.

Is this correct? According to the wiki, the Magnum Opus learning requirements are:
Tier 1 - 12
Tier 2 - 16
Tier 3 - 20
Tier 4 - 25

If I'm stuck with a Tier 1 or 2 Magnum Opus then I might as well just use the "Compose a Book" decision, which has the following benefits:

1. Can be written no matter which society you join
   • Pagan warrior lodge for awesome martial and personal combat skill
   • Christian monastic order for religious artifacts and +virtues/-sins (more likely to receive saint bloodline)
2. Can begin writing as soon as you gain control over your character (though you may want to wait until you improve your education trait or raise your stats)
3. Can be written more than once per character, especially if you follow Step 2 (make sure you choose hunting or theology focus to keep your character alive while finishing your 2nd book)

Don't get me wrong I really do like the Hermetic Society, it's just that with Jade Dragon + Holy Fury I have a hard time justifying joining them over something else.

 

[knppel]

Oh yeah, my bad, it's 25 for top tier indeed. Which leaves 20 for tier 3 as a requirement a really strong ruler can fulfill without being hermetic.

And I totally agree, they're not the go-to society anymore. While on the one hand a good thing as other societies (warrior lodges, namely) are viable now as well, arguably they're (even more than the hermetics were at their time) overpowered, and indeed the chinese book addition, accompanied with a nerf for books, did its part to cripple the hermetics' business model further.

 

[Kurblius]

So an update.

First, the good. I adopted Sea Bound as one of my doctrines and apparently that turns Reformed Hellenic into a raiding culture which was unexpected and very awesome. I've identified the location of +Learning artifacts and I'm gonna go see how many I can get. There's a couple +3 Chinese Poetry Scrolls that I'm going to make a b-line for. By the way, wasn't there a way to increase success of looting during raiding? Was it a bloodline?

Now, the bad. Apparently I need martial education to found the Olympian warrior lodge. I always go for a Stewardship education though, so getting martial instead would probably force me to loose 1/3rd of my demesne, which would be painful for income and personal troops so I donno if it's worth it. However, I think it's the only lodge I can join. Does anyone know if the AI will found it on it's own? I somehow doubt they would...

 

[knppel]

Letting you know, hellenic is pagan and can thus raid, even when civilized-cosmopolitan-bloodthirsty gods which is just amazing imho

AI will found lodges if it meets the requirements. I formed first the Intelligenzija, left it, and formed Olympians, Baccus formed shortly after by the most sinful landed hellenic char in the realm. Thank Jupiter for martial education- I was not aware of this requirement, but generally train my sons and any available kinsman as soldier. This is war, people die, and soldiers should make at least a little better

Once the lodge has formed, you can simply join in the usual way with the trial fight I guess, though I did not yet test that at as my martial ground school focus ensured later on the next generations were flooding the olympic champions on their own to further snowball the Strategoi's martial capabilities!