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Nerga

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The lack of republics are one of the major shortfalls of Crusader Kings 2 at the moment. The introduction of republics will allow many more gameplay options for the player, some of which are historical for this period like Venice and Genoa, as well as some possibly ahistorical gameplay options. The fact is that republics were all over Europe in this period, as shown in the game through cities. But the problem is that republics are not playable, and are shallow. The good thing about implementing republics is that much of the work is already done by Paradox! My proposal for the implementation of republics is a heavy emphasis on a slightly altered factions system, coupled with plots.

First let us go over how Republics work, and how republics in this period work. The idea of a republic is that a representative votes in a senate (or congress/diet/parliament etc.) for laws based on who they represent. But we also know that republics often break up into factions to get things forward, there may be 100 people, but through informal agreements and political ties they vote in blocks and form factions, often making compromises to get things done. Now republics in this period were more specifically Ogliarchic republics. These republics did not give power to all people, but rather the rich families of the cities. Now the Doge, who was the ruler for life was selected by a council of the patrician families through their elaborate elective process, but it was still essentially the collective will of the rich. So essentially whoever gets the most families to go along with him can become the doge.

How this works into CK2:

The main things are already done in CK2, factions, plots and families.
First, you need to give the leaders of the families a vote, much like elective succession in monarchies. This should probably be done by giving the leader of any family who is either a mayor or a baron a vote for the doge. The difference is that you are not say who gets the properties, but rather who gets the leadership of the republic for the rest of their life. So personal desmesne would not really change, but the leadership of the main province would, as would who the lower ranked vassals would follow. To implement this you need to be able to track votes and to manipulate votes.

Factions are critical here to the success of a republic. MY idea is to use much the same process as the faction for usurping rulers. You can have a faction already to usurp the ruler and put a claimant onto the throne. The difference here is that anyone who has a property, outside of possibly the bishops, have a claim to be the doge (aside: I am including castles along with cities for this idea, much like muslims having temples and castles, for republics you would have cities and castles, but this is unimportant and could probably be changed) So the idea is to have a faction window for elections on the next doge, only this faction window will just have claimants, the strongest faction at the death of the doge would then get their candidate elected next. This window should be easily accessible as you will probably want to check it often, and could probably go where the laws go that show the heirs and pretenders.

So to get the AI to vote in these elections and chose a faction it would have to have several modifiers so they do not just choose themselves, as everyone would theoretically vote for themselves. Assume everyone starts with X likelihood to join a give faction. The chance for a voter to in a faction would then be YX, where Y is >1 for positive modifiers which would most be the candidate is the liege of the voter, more powerful than the voter, has good relations with the voter, is more senior in the family of the voter, older than the voter, number of people voting for the candidate etc. and the inverse Y would be <1. Also, if char A is voting for anyone other than themselves, no other char would vote for Char A, as that is not logical, but if A would vote for B, but B votes for C, then A would have a higher chance to vote for C as well.

Plots in republics would have to be expanded. Specifically, there would have to be plots for blackmail to force characters into certain factions, or plots to smear the reputation of a character so others are less likely to vote for them. Plots could also be used to make characters vote for who you want , like your heir if you already the doge, or to make a specific candidate seem better.

Gameplay changes

First off, the addition of republics should add a new gameplay element to everyone, as cities and mayors should become playable. Secondly, there should become new factions in non-republics to overthrow areas and set them up as republics, this could also be a goal of peasant revolts. Republics should have aristocrats who do the opposite, and try to implement a monarchy. The doge should also be able to implement a monarchy if they choose, but it would have heavy resistance and most likely start a civil war. This should add another level of strife in the game.
Republics in this time period were often focused on trade and naval supremacy, this is shown through the Casus belli on coastal provinces, but the lack of trade goods and trade routes can cause an issue with the dominance of the merchant republics in this period. I think the way to solve this would be to create the diplomacy idea of trade agreements. These could take the form of province tax modifiers, either positive or negative, as trade is already abstracted into tax revenue. So Venice, may get a trade agreement with Byzantium on Thrace for instance, Thrace gets a 15% Tax increase, but Venice gets a +2 tax cut. These trade agreements could be beneficial or harmful to a province, but always beneficial to the republic that implements them. As such, it could create a new casus belli to force someone into a trade agreement. These trade agreements, could then be modified based on Naval power, so some function based on coastal provinces and number of ships they can raise. More powerful the navy, the more money they can get from these agreements. Going after these agreements would also make any republics major rivals, which is historic, as they would then go to war with each other. This idea could also be expanded into naval combat, and possibly blockades, but I am unsure if Paradox wants to implement that.
 
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Aardvark Bellay

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A well done. Thats about how i thought of republics as well, but you explained it better than me if i had ever attempted to do so. ;)

Only one point and question:
I don't understand your example for tax agreements.
Republics in this time period were often focused on trade and naval supremacy, this is shown through the Casus belli on coastal provinces, but the lack of trade goods and trade routes can cause an issue with the dominance of the merchant republics in this period. I think the way to solve this would be to create the diplomacy idea of trade agreements. These could take the form of province tax modifiers, either positive or negative, as trade is already abstracted into tax revenue. So Venice, may get a trade agreement with Byzantium on Thrace for instance, Thrace gets a 15% Tax increase, but Venice gets a +2 tax cut. These trade agreements could be beneficial or harmful to a province, but always beneficial to the republic that implements them.

How is a tax cut beneficial to Venice ? Do you mean if they are vassals to the ERE ?
 

Nerga

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@Aardvark bellay Historically Venice got a large amount of income by controlling trade in other countries. Venice historically had a large amount of merchant houses in Constantinople. Venice, basically monopolized trade. Trade Goods and Trade are abstracted into tax revenue, as in you don't deal with iron, wheat, horses, etc. you just get taxes. The idea is that venice or any republic, gets a trade monopoly which would increase the trade in a province, thus increasing tax, but it is still the merchants from venice that are doing the trade. That money would go back to the city. Controlling trade is how all of the trade republics made money in this period, whether it be Genoa, Venice, or the Hansa. The Hansa for instance had member cities that forbade trade if you were not a member, so the Hansa made money, but the cities that were members also made more money. So I imagine it would be a province modifier like Levy Reinforcements or Slothful Ruler, where you get an increase to tax revenue in the home province, but the republic controlling trade also makes money off of it.
 

cybrxkhan

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Great ideas, although I do have some concerns:

1. I assume this system might also apply to Mayors as well? How would mayors be selected, then? I doubt they would be de jure hereditary as well.

2. I assume the difficulty in this sort of system is that you have to try to keep things in the family, but how would this be done so? Would there be different elections for different titles, or would there be only one election for all titles in a demesne?
 

Kalderus

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The big question about Republics and the one that everyone probably wants answered, if they were to be made playable, is what happens when you die and your successor is of another dynasty? Would you just sit around as a mayor/unlanded character unable to interact with the world until one of your dynastic heirs can get elected again? Until Paradox can figure out an enjoyable way around this fatal flaw in playing a republic, I don't think we'll see them become playable; however I would like to see playable republics with fleshed out trade mechanics and senate politics.
 

Oriflamme

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Interesting. That could also add some events like being able to form the Hanseatic League if you have territory on the coast of the Baltic.
 

Aardvark Bellay

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@Aardvark bellay Historically Venice got a large amount of income by controlling trade in other countries. Venice historically had a large amount of merchant houses in Constantinople. Venice, basically monopolized trade. Trade Goods and Trade are abstracted into tax revenue, as in you don't deal with iron, wheat, horses, etc. you just get taxes. The idea is that venice or any republic, gets a trade monopoly which would increase the trade in a province, thus increasing tax, but it is still the merchants from venice that are doing the trade. That money would go back to the city. Controlling trade is how all of the trade republics made money in this period, whether it be Genoa, Venice, or the Hansa. The Hansa for instance had member cities that forbade trade if you were not a member, so the Hansa made money, but the cities that were members also made more money. So I imagine it would be a province modifier like Levy Reinforcements or Slothful Ruler, where you get an increase to tax revenue in the home province, but the republic controlling trade also makes money off of it.

They earned more money by monopolies, but they didnt have tax cuts in their homeport as a result.
German cities had as an example the Staple Right as an important tool, especially for the Hanse.
Whatever, republics were mere trader unions to force others into accepting their monopolies. Trade diplomacy was a weapon just like war....as it is today.

Though i have to say , suddenly this idea doesnt look very entertaining anymore.
 
Last edited:

Me_

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Interesting, but I see one problem: in 1066 Venice is the main city + a church, a castle and two more cities. That means just 3 possible electors, the same (low number of electors) would apply to most lord mayors (sometimes it would be just 1 elector - in a county with a city as main holding and a castle + church, 2 if lord mayor could vote for a successor as well).