How to handle awakened empires when you're small?

[Setho]

I just had my game ruined by an awakened empire for the third time (not in a row, but still...). I was going with a federation build, so I didn't go to war in attempts to expand my empire often (I only grabbed 2 systems via liberation followed by making the liberated planets my vassal), but I tried colonizing a lot and had 20+ planets from that alone. Even so, I have doubts on if it was enough, especially since I didn't give myself time to get the right ship composition. The FE awakened soon after a war too, so my federation didn't have much time to rebuild.

Here's the specs (already deleted the save out of frustration, so its mostly from memory):
Empire ethos: spiritualist pacifist xenophile
Number of federation members large enough to matter: 2
(they'd have fleets of around 15k if they had any)

Own fleet strength before its destruction: about 22k
Fleet limit usage: about 230 out of about 330 coming from 24ish planets, all with lv6 starports
Fleet composition: mostly cruisers with a few dozen corvettes, all with plasma cannons for weapons and shields + capacitors for defense

Year the FE awakened: 2309
AFE fleet strength: 100k before the fight, 75k afterwards
I'll also note the FE was the materialist one (observers I believe they're called)

My questions are:
1. What's the average awakening year for FEs? I feel 2309 is early and federations make FEs awaken (too) early.

2. Should you expect a FE to awaken if you start of colonize near them? Also, how do you handle starting right next to a militant isolationist (if that happens)?

3. As the title suggests, what's the best way to handle awakened empires if you're not especially powerful on your own? Are federation builds (with all AI members) viable if you make sure your fed members (and the fed fleet, if you can) all have good sized fleets if you want to go to war? Is it possible at all to talk awakened empires out of being aggressive without becoming their subject? When is it appropriate to become a subject, and can you get out of it when you do?

 

[LordMagus]

1. Yes that is quite early. Materialists awoke for me after I destroyed the xenophobes, and I had over 100k fleet strength.
2. I dont think how close you are matters. If you start next to xenophobes, prepare for a tough playthrough or restart.
3. Defeating awakened empires requires large fleets. Federations simply don't build enough ships to deal with the mighty blobs. If you can't destroy the AE with your +100k stack, your remaining safe choice is to just become a subject.

 

[tobias.mb]

1. AFAIK there is no year limitation on FEs awakening. There might be more triggers but among others FEs can awaken if a) end-game threat arrives b) another FE awakens c) a normal empire has 40k fleet strength.
At the very least 40k Fleet strength is the only trigger you can influence. So stop expanding you Fleet once you get close to 40k for some time, until your naval cap can actually support more like around 70-80k

2. No. The only FE that cares about you colonizing are the Xenophobes. They will demand from you to destroy colonies near them, and they will declare war on you if you don't, but they won't awaken to do it. An FE stll has around 70k fleet strength though even without awakening.
If you start right next to them, you simply expand in the opposite direction.

3. You can't face an AE (or FE) if you can't at least stall a 100k (70k) Fleet on your own. Allies are simply too bad at grouping up. If you can't fight them your only option is becoming their vassal. However: The AE seem to go for targets around them first, so if you don't have a border with them you'll likely be safe for a while. Also, if you are next to an FE, it is probably a good idea not to anger them (e.g. don't use synth next to the materialists), since you'll more likely become their target once they awaken.
If there is more than one AE, and you are threatened by one of them, but you absolutely don't want to give in to their demands, you can always try to become a vassal of the other one.

 

[Setho]

Ok, so becoming an AE's vassal is an option, but how can you break free? Or how close to winning can you get while you're an AE's vassal?

I imagine it's largely out of the question if you're a xenophobe's thrall or forced into peace by the xenophile AE, but it seems possible under the other two types.

Also, are you forced to fight for the AE you're the vassal of if a war in heaven starts?

 

[General Retreat]

Being a xenophobe's thrall is actually a really good deal. You can't colonise, but by that point in the game, colonisation is limited anyway. What you can do is expand through conquest and plunder to your weaselly, black guts' content. The objective being to conquer enough to take down your overlord.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/59y6a9/this_is_the_most_terrifying_message_i_ever/

 

[Meneliki]

Can't speak for the other AE personalities, but I can tell you that you don't want to be the subject of the Peacekeeper guys. You can't declare war, or conduct much diplomacy. Kind of ends the game, depending on the political situation.

 

[Cri11e]

No. The only FE that cares about you colonizing are the Xenophobes.

And of course spiritualist FE when its a gaia world.

 

[SuperGeek89]

Can't speak for the other AE personalities, but I can tell you that you don't want to be the subject of the Peacekeeper guys. You can't declare war, or conduct much diplomacy. Kind of ends the game, depending on the political situation.

That's ironic because thematically the Benevolent Interventionist are the ones that respect you independence the most.

 

[Meneliki]

That's ironic because thematically the Benevolent Interventionist are the ones that respect you independence the most.

That isn't the experience I had with them. I spawned next to one, expanded as best I could, eventually got boxed in, and that's when they awoke and demanded that I sign their treaty. I assumed that it was 'sign or die' like most of the other AE's, so I signed.

Despite great relations and "trust +100" after a little while, they still refused to release me because they "didn't trust me." With no way to declare war/expand/conduct any meaningful diplomacy, the game basically ended at that point.