How to form Qing?

[Mingmung]

I've tried playing one of the Manchu tribes (Jiangzhou) for a while now, but Ming just doesn't want to explode. Nor does the early-game strategy of attacking Haixi and Yeren as soon as possible work, as they both make networks of alliances I can't seem to break (with the Oirat and other tribes).

Is there someone who knows what to do?

 

[Sybrand99]

You shouldn't be scared of an alliance with Oirat. Mongolia is disloyal and won't do anything and if you can take Oirat and Haixi (I think they allied Oirat?) separately down you can win the war. There is also a chance that Ming will attack Oirat to force tributary. In my games Yeren always allied only Ainu, and if you immediately raise host from the estate and you maneuver smartly in the mountains Yeren should also be easy winnable. After that you can take Buryatia/Korchin and after that you surely could run over Oirat.

Chagatai should be your next target, destroy them and their vassal Yarkand and maybe after that you can take Tibet via Sarig Yogir and if Ming passes a reform you have a ideal chance to let them break the tributary and go for it, especially because Ming in the opening years Ming is wasting their manpower with wars against Chagatai and Oirat.

 

[Parapluman]

Ming gets a disaster when they have a neighboring horde of +300 development that isn't an ally or a tributary.
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Unguarded_Nomadic_Frontier

So simply stop being a tributary when you reach 300+ development and wait a few years.
It will take a few years for the disaster to trigger. So prepare your forces for a potential defensive war against Ming. I think you can try to get a royal marriage before you break off your tributary status if you want to avoid a war.

When the event triggers Mings armies will be made of paper soldiers.

 

[sigeena]

Don't wait for Ming to explode. Instead, go for development of at least 300, then decline tributes till Ming cancels, then ready yourself for them to declare on you. Or if they don't declare, wait for their Mandate to plunge before going after them.

Most people will advocate going fast, i.e., start unification of China before 1500. You'll need to weigh between a couple of issues.

1. Manchu or Qing. Manchu government allows your horde army ratio as well as the extra shock on flat terrain. Big advantages in early war. But Qing allows you to core Beijing instantly and provides greater stability.

2. Take the Mandate fast or wait. Taking the Mandate early allows you to start accruing Mandate points, to climb the Mandate reforms. Once you hit the RCC reform, it makes taking the rest of China lesser of a pain. However, once you take the Mandate, you're reliant on consistently making Ming your tributary, to accrue the Mandate points.

 

[kitemasaki]

As has been said above, get to the 300+ development. I would advise waiting until Ming passes a reform though. With the latest patch, Ming's mandate tanks immensely when passing a reform. When they do, thats when you break tribute status since the disaster will trigger faster due to low Mandate.

 

[Balkri]

I did a run as one of the tribes into Manchu and eventually Qing not long ago. The best way to go is to either ally or destroy the other two tribes early and conquering korea to boost your economy.
Becoming a tributary of Ming will allow your to attack any other tributary withouth Ming protecting them (Korea and any of the other hordes that is forced into tributary are good targets... specially if they were forced into tributary by a war... as soon as that is over, jump on them wile they are still weak).

The key is to stop being a tributary only when you think you are strong enough bot in army and development.
The horde disarter for Ming can take arround 3 years to fire, but with enough development you can acelerate the process (the negative mandate to the chinese emperor scales based on the total development of any non tributary bordering nation, and is a montly amount)

I think i did the change from Manchu to Qing after a mingplosion of several states, but started attaking them early on. The area arround their capital is almost all farmland or flat terrain an as soon as they start losing mandate the manchu cavalry will destroy the Ming soldiers, specially if you invest in manchu banners.
You can also prepare forts in the hills and montains of your borders area and lure them to fight in disfavorable terrain.

Anyway, I did the change to Qing to get the permanet claims on China, but I think you also get them if you take the Celestial emperor title now.

Also, Manchu traditions + ofensive ideas can give you some insane generals early on, 3 shock will be the minimum they will get... so don't fear war.