How to forge an enduring Scottish Empire?

[Akintude]

I've been asking about how to succeed as somewhat-backwards, historically doomed nations like Byzantium recently, which probably isn't too wise considering I'm still new at the game. Not surprisingly, I've had lots of trouble winning as them, and large powers like Spain are just sort of daunting and I feel like I'm falling horribly behind.

I'm playing Vanilla 1.09, btw.

So instead, I'd like to try playing as Scotland, and see if I can (at the very least) remain independent until 1820. Ideally I'd like to annex Ireland (which, as I understand it, is the only no brainer, since we share the same basic Gaelic culture which also happens to be Scotland's only state culture,) and also vassalize England, and if circumstances permit, perhaps even conquer some of the Scandinavian states and to create some sort of North Atlantic seafaring empire. Maybe even colonize bits of Canada and the US just for the hell of it.

What would be the best way to go about doing this? Would it be possible to build up lots of military forces early on and sucker-punch the English into irrelevance by stabbing them in the back (head?) during the Hundred Years' War? What would be the best way to take over Ireland, force-vassalizing them in a war and then diploannexing them later, or simply snapping up provinces one at a time? Is there any way I can beat the English to the northern areas of the New World? Do I get any historically-dated explorers or do I have to fiddle with the sliders to make that work?

Since Gaelic culture isn't exactly widespread, what would be the best way to expand? Would it make sense to simply vassalize other northern European nations, or should I eventually aim to annex them despite cultural (religious?) differences? Should I change my own state religion to protestantism given the chance?

I'm assuming that, as Scotland, I won't have any real tech penalties either for culture or religion, besides the relative poorness of my own provinces?

 

[SeedSnatcher]

Well, Gaelic culture is also the culture of the provinces of Brittany, so I guess you could try going from there. I haven't played vanilla in awhile, but I'm pretty sure you're dragged into a war with England by France because you're allies. Also, I'm not sure, but the (in RL at least) ill-fated Darien expedition might be in the game.

 

[Akintude]

Wow, I just started the game and I didn't realize Scotland begins at war with England and all the others. At first I was terrified, but I looked at my surprisingly large army (over twice my support limit!) and the fact that the English had to contend with France as well, and started having happier thoughts. Sure enough, I waited a bit, and the minimal English garrisons on Britain headed off to the continent to fight the French and Aragonese, and I used this opportunity to rampage across central and southern Britain, looting every single province and eventually capturing Yorkshire, Northumberland, and even Anglia! Just as they started to realize the dire situation they were in and began ferrying troops back to Britain to counterattack and retake London, I managed to pressure them to coughing up Yorkshire and Meath. Hell of a deal, I pretty much got away with murder here.

I used my new possession in Ireland to stage the remnants of my army and then declared on Eire and rolled them up like an old carpet. Only Ulster had any fortress at all, so I managed to capture the other Irish provinces simply by moving through them, Hearts of Iron style. I then demanded all of Ireland's remaining provinces, save the capital, and force-vassalized them, intending to diploannex in the future. Things are going incredibly well so far...

Anyway, my country is still extremely poor and I'm not sure what's to be done about my very poor (20 gold/year) census taxes...need to promote tax collectors, I guess, but I don't see how that's going to happen. Somehow I automatically took out a loan during the war with England, and it's going to come due in a year or two I guess (is there any way to check the exact date?) I'm not making any money at all by a long shot, though, so how exactly am I going to pay this off?

 

[unmerged(44386)]

Somehow I automatically took out a loan during the war with England, and it's going to come due in a year or two I guess (is there any way to check the exact date?)

Yeah, look in the scroll - log - book - ledger thingy...one of the pages there is for loans, do a right click on the first page when you open it up (at least I think it right)....then look at the index for which page...left click...

 

[unmerged(13581)]

The main problem here is you won't be able to beat England again if you aren't damn lucky as next time you'll have to fight them they'll have a huge (and I mean HUGE) army ready to smash you and they will be coming for you as they have a permanent CB on you now... England AI is quite bad after all, but if they can do one thing its waging war on their own island. Futhermore that loan is going to eat you up if you don't have any tax collectors already build.

I don't play any classic but after all I guess it's the same as it is in AGCEEP - don't go to war too early! You do need a secured tax base if you want to do anything lasting and I wouldn't go for the English if I was you! As said before, they'll beat you most of the time simply because they are too stupid to send huge armys to mainland Europe and instead keep raising new armys at home :wacko:

 

[Akintude]

Futhermore that loan is going to eat you up if you don't have any tax collectors already build.

There's no way around this? Would just taking out a bunch of loans, promoting tax collectors in every province, and then going bankrupt be a valid strategy?

 

[unmerged(44386)]

There's no way around this? Would just taking out a bunch of loans, promoting tax collectors in every province, and then going bankrupt be a valid strategy?

No, Id sync loot as much as possible in the first war to pay for tax collectors.

 

[Akintude]

You're saying I should start over?

EDIT: I did start over, your idea was actually an outstanding one. Synch looting let me promote tax collectors in all four of my provinces, it was very nice. Anyway, you're saying I should absolutely avoid taking any provinces from England that they have cores on, to avoid giving them a CB? So just demand Meath then?

 

[unmerged(44386)]

You're saying I should start over?

EDIT: I did start over, your idea was actually an outstanding one. Synch looting let me promote tax collectors in all four of my provinces, it was very nice. Anyway, you're saying I should absolutely avoid taking any provinces from England that they have cores on, to avoid giving them a CB? So just hit Meath then?

Start again is up to you.

Im saying sync loot so you have the money for tax collectors in your cities plus money left over for any you hope to gain from England.

For the first war I would put military maintenance at 50% straight away. England always heads for the continent and you wont be fighting any / many / hard battles.

I would take provinces off England, just as you had done. IMHO England is not a very capable ai. But make sure you stay friends with France (stay in their alliance), so they can help in future wars with England....at least until England is crippled.

What you did with Eire is good, I would have done it!

If you can, make a seperate peace with England, so you can continue to war Burgundy (in the hope you can gain Flandern and perhaps Zeeland - yummy provinces)


..................

I would say perhaps try a few times, just to get the hang of it, say first 50 years. Once you can play one semi minor country sucessfully, you can play em all successfully, good luck

 

[Akintude]

This is working out pretty well. I started yet another war with England and again rampaged across the countryside, unfortunately my French allies ended the war by accepting a small reparations stipend. But for a period, however brief, my 21,000 scottish heavy cavalry were unstoppable. Shame it was over before I managed to siege any provinces or do real synch-looting.

Anyway, I started a second war against Ireland (with only Ulster remaining) and simply annexed them, though unfortunately that seems to have snared me about six badboy. Is this a big problem? Should I simply not do that in the future?

Also, I'm wondering what I should do next. I'm researching Trade Level 3 at 100%, but it says it won't be done until 1495ish, which is kind of really bad. What can I do to speed this up? Alternatively, are there any other areas I can attack without incurring lots of badboy/stability loss?

 

[unmerged(44386)]

I would not have militarily annexed them, I would have looked at diplo annexing them for 1 BB later...but thats just me...

I usually focus on infra...but thats just me...I like to go on war sprees looting like mad , therefore trading is not much good for me, because Im at war most the time and that affects trade.

To speed up tech you can...

- shed provinces

- gain alot of rich provinces

- trade like mad

- war/loot like mad and let the booty go into tech

- build manufactories...costs alot - u dont have the money


....what to do next is really up to you, thats whats so good about this game, you can build any kind of Empire you want...wanna be a small trading monolith? you can, wanna own all of Europe? you can, wanna colonize the world? you can, wanna vassalize the world? you can, wanna kill Naploeon...you can

all the little ins and outs you will learn along the way or be able to ask here once you come across it...

For me, if I was Scotland...I guess I would like a Cot or two...perhaps Flandern and Mecklemburg, plus more English land, before venturing over to central America via Iberia....but then you may feel an urge to go vassalize Iraq or the Golden Horde or something/anything

 

[CatKnight]

6 BB isn't critical...just don't make a habit of doing that and keep an eye on your reputation.

I'd keep taking England down. Your original goal was to vassalize them, not conquer them...which is fine, especially considering their culture provinces are wrong. (Plus, you can take advantage of their explorer AI.) Keep fighting, eventually force or diploannex them, then release them as a vassal and get half their income. :X

You've noticed the French as your 'leader' will tend to settle for money. The only way around that is to work fast and settle with England seperately, OR ... wait 10 years, let your alliance expire, and pause the game on that DAY. Invite France into YOUR alliance. If they accept, now you're the leader and you dictate terms.

As long as France is so friendly, you may want to consider taking action against Brittany given they're the same culture. Real Deal's idea of taking a CoT like Flanders is also a good idea, as you can really use the money.

 

[Reveilled]

Do you have a lot of ships? If you have quite a few future wars with England might allow you to sneak around the back. I've noticed that very often the English AI tends to dump all its army in Northumberland. If you can get around the back of that army, you might be able to win sieges before England's megastack can take Lothian. With luck, they'll ignore Ireland until they're finished in Scotland, and you can use that as a jumping point to take England and take back Scotland.

Of course, this depends on you having ships. You might be able to afford a few galleys, and you should only need about 6 ships, minimum.

 

[Mr Me]

As has already been said it's very nice to beat up England early. Other than that just get a few cots like flandern, andalusia (after 1500), and others. Make sure you research only economic techs (infra and trade) for the first 100years or so as that will give you a large tech advantage and better income later.