How to do a naval invasion against heavily defended ports

[Simon_9732495]

Except it isn't. That's a weakly defended port, and if you defend ports like that in multiplayer you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

I'm talking about a port tile with lots of units on it, mister super-smart.
You should come a bit down back to earth. Multiplayer is not a mystic unknown to all Users here excpect you.

If you read the texts you could have noticed that this thread addresses newer players that MAYBE think putting 4 20 width units on every port is a unbreakable defense. And I write at 3 points about adjacent tiles.

I know that for players like you the content of this thread may be trivial. But instead of assuming I don't know how to defend a coast in multiplayer and talking down on me like to a schoolboy, you could have been constructive and provided more insight into what a good defense looks like. Maybe show a screenshot or explain a bit how important air is (and therefore airports).


Sorry for beeing a bit harsh. Gonna press send anyway. Sometimes you have to go with your first feelings.

 

[Zauberelefant]

Thanks a lot!

Are so much breakthrough necessary? I'd say half of that is enough but i haven't got much experience with the game.

I think the breakthrough just so happens. You want high armour, attack and hardness, so 15/5 is 'the meta' for armour divisions.

You could get more soft attack by replacing MARM with MSPG, but then lose armour and hardness for little gain in SA.

Same with MOT: you need some for Org, but not too many.

 

[Fulmen]

I'm talking about a port tile with lots of units on it, mister super-smart.
You should come a bit down back to earth. Multiplayer is not a mystic unknown to all Users here excpect you.

If you read the texts you could have noticed that this thread addresses newer players that MAYBE think putting 4 20 width units on every port is a unbreakable defense. And I write at 3 points about adjacent tiles.

I know that for players like you the content of this thread may be trivial. But instead of assuming I don't know how to defend a coast in multiplayer and talking down on me like to a schoolboy, you could have been constructive and provided more insight into what a good defense looks like. Maybe show a screenshot or explain a bit how important air is (and therefore airports).


Sorry for beeing a bit harsh. Gonna press send anyway. Sometimes you have to go with your first feelings.

You misunderstand: I simply disagree with your definition of a strongly defended port. Your example is liable to get taken out with just a handful of light tanks landed next to the port.

As for how to set up a strong port defence, I already provided all the necessary data, with the exception of template compositon beyond width, and what techs you should research in the game, but there's lots of data available to help you with that both here on the forums and in the game.

 

[Simon_9732495]

I simply disagree with your definition of a strongly defended port. Your example is liable to get taken out with just a handful of light tanks landed next to the port.

Where do you see a definition?

I quote my first and second sentence:

Some players think they are safe against naval invasions, if they just guard the ports heavily.
In the following I will show that that is not always enough, even if there are A LOT of units guarding a port and that leaving the tiles next to a port unguarded is dangerous.

I write on several places that leaving the tile next to port unguarded is a problem. The whole thread is about what the problem with stacking units on a port tile is.

What do you want from me?
Choosing other words for the topic title?

 

[kettyo]

You could get more soft attack by replacing MARM with MSPG, but then lose armour and hardness for little gain in SA.

He doesn't really need extra SA. He has 2000

Couldn't armour be further improved by mixing in a heavy tank battalion?

 

[Zauberelefant]

He doesn't really need extra SA. He has 2000

Couldn't armour be further improved by mixing in a heavy tank battalion?

Yes, but that requires additional research and production and is probably excessive anyway. Improved Medium Armour goes a long way against anything but the most determined resistance.
Also for later operations, the abysmal speed is detrimental, as is supply use and fuel.

If you can do it, use Harm by all means.

 

[kettyo]

If you can do it, use Harm by all means.

I don't know if you can build full HARM divs normally at all, it's so expensive. Sure if you have Germany+France+USSR it's not much an issue but playing some medium or minor power it's out of question. The only use i can think of is as bastions for infantry divs to give them armour, piercing, and breakthrough.

 

[Happy Trigger]

And how can you naval invade a heavily guarded island? What is the better option, strategic bombing, CAS, multiples engages, or all of them?

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

And how can you naval invade a heavily guarded island? What is the better option, strategic bombing, CAS, multiples engages, or all of them?

I guess, best option would be to starve them out: have couple wolfpacks in the area and level their ports to ensure they get next to no supplies and fuel (should ground local airforce). Then you'll need proper "marine" divisions to actually take it.

 

[Simon_9732495]

And how can you naval invade a heavily guarded island? What is the better option, strategic bombing, CAS, multiples engages, or all of them?

If the Island has only one tile you have no option.

If the Island has 2 tiles you could invade the non port tile, but I would only do this as distraction. Reason: The units on the other tile will immediately attack you. That means you can't attack them, because you don't have a third tile behind them you can right click to attack anyway. It's like that they attack lasts too long, so get deorged and lose all divisions.

The way to do it is circle your attacking divisions. That means, having multiple invasions ready, but not starting all. First attack with 2 (or 4) divisions. When their org is low you start the next invasion. Give the defender not much time to org up after the attack is over. If the battle last long enough, the CAS will deorg them.

Force attack also helps.

If you cant bring CAS (or TAC on ground support) to the battle because of enemy air superiority, I think you should try to get air superiority first or find a less defended port.
Air superiority is the key for naval invasions. For example it's almost impossible to hold Gibraltar against a decent player if you lost West Africa, because you have no Airports.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Why would it take longer? AFAIK, in both cases you only need to deorg divisions actively fighting. When encircled, divisions will get a penalty, making the task easier.

You don't have to attack from all those tiles, though, just make the encirclement.

Did some more testing, I think you are right.

• Invading both tiles next to port is better, because of the distraction, because you have more options.
• Encircling is good, but first priority is attacking the port tile. You dont want to lose time.
• Biggest problem is beeing pinned from the port itself beeing unable to attack it. It's good to have a third tile behind the port that you can right-click to attack anyway. That doesnt work for Porthsmouth because the tanks will go around Portsmouth if you right click the tile behind it.

Another Tipp: If you do naval invasions with INF and Tanks, always start the INF a litte bit before the Tanks. If the tile is not undefended you want the INF to join the battle, not the tanks. Because naval attack (from sea or over straits) of Tanks is inferior.

 

[SophieX]

I took a closer look to your screenshots in the first post.
I did never made naval-invasions with non-marine-units; because I thought, that non-marine-units will suffer Org-losses after landing ( the are not "trained" for that ). But your screenshot shows, they didn't loose Org.

So it seems, the "only" advantages real marines have as "invaders", is 50% more attack. Is this correct ?

Thanks for sharing that informations .....its never to late to learn, and each game has it own logic.

 

[Voigt]

Marines are good for crossing rivers, and taking Islands, since they have a much lower invasion attack modifier.
Marines are also good for clearing the beaches for the first wave of attacks on a regular coast. If every province tile is defended, or atleat the tiles beside the port, than marines attack everywhere there, and regular infantry/tanks invade on the now controlled coastal provinces to help get a port.

 

[SophieX]

Marines are good for crossing rivers, and taking Islands, since they have a much lower invasion attack modifier.
...

lower?

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

So it seems, the "only" advantages real marines have as "invaders", is 50% more attack. Is this correct ?

IIRC, generals also have skill that extends marines supply grace period. Other than that - yes, you'll likely be better off using "normal" units, if the goal is to land them on unoccupied tile and go from there.

 

[Voigt]

As in absolute sense lower negative modifier (penalty) for fighting invasion battles.

Even with pure marines you only reduce the penalty for invasions from -70% to -20%. You won't get rid of it.

 

[kettyo]

I thought, that non-marine-units will suffer Org-losses after landing ( the are not "trained" for that )

Isn't it so that the further away you land the more ORG you lose? I though it's so.

The Channel is very narrow so ORG loss should be negligible.

 

[Voigt]

When you transport troops using ships from friendly port to friendly port you lose org similar to strat. redeployment.
For invasions it just takes the org when you start the invasion, and only goes lower when fighting, not when moving.

 

[kettyo]

When you transport troops ort ships from friendly port to friendly port you lose org similar to strat. redeployment.
For invasions it just takes the org when you start the invasion, and only goes lower when fighting, not when moving.

So it doesn't matter if i invade from one tile away or ten tiles away. Somehow i remembered otherwise. Maybe it was different before?

 

[Voigt]

I don't remember ever having problems with org, if I invaded the Japanese Home Islands, starting from Hawaii as USA.