How to destroy Ottomans as quickly as possible?

[RedArmy]

I am not struggling to beat the ottomans, I am struggling to do it fast. I am playing the mamluks, and I needed five wars to annex them completely! I achieved it around 1530. It seems very slow to me.

My goal is to switch to turkish culture and form Rûm.

 

[Pandrea]

You are kidding, right?

 

[Eolath]

If you're still on 1.32 you can call in bordering allies or rivals and have them separate peace the Ottomans by transferring 100% occupation over to them, be sure another ally you call in doesn't get the occupation in stead, it needs to be 100% to one ally. As the Mamluks you can kill the Ottomans in 2 wars this way, quite easily. Those wars will be longer, of course, since you need to reoccupy everything after a peace deal (do it at the start of the month and mothball the forts before you transfer occupations) but will save you plenty of time in the long run.

If you do it perfectly the Ottomans can be gone after a single (!) war. When all Beylics and Bulgaria + Byz are released the Ottomans will be less than 100% warscore and can be full annexed.

 

[RedArmy]

If you're still on 1.32 you can call in bordering allies or rivals and have them separate peace the Ottomans by transferring 100% occupation over to them, be sure another ally you call in doesn't get the occupation in stead, it needs to be 100% to one ally. As the Mamluks you can kill the Ottomans in 2 wars this way, quite easily. Those wars will be longer, of course, since you need to reoccupy everything after a peace deal (do it at the start of the month and mothball the forts before you transfer occupations) but will save you plenty of time in the long run.

If you do it perfectly the Ottomans can be gone after a single (!) war. When all Beylics and Bulgaria + Byz are released the Ottomans will be less than 100% warscore and can be full annexed.

I would like to do it normally if possible, without this exploit.

 

[necro84]

Vassalize Byzantium before Ottomans can conquer them
Don't make peace with Ottomans as soon as possible. If war last longer other nations may declare on them and take some land too.
Reconquest is cheaper so you can use reconquest for some areas - Bulgaria has many cores, Byzantium also but you need to integrate them to form Rum so this should be your first reconquest war
Use their alliances to make the truce shorter if possible
Use diplomatic ideas for cheaper province warscore cost, additional diplomats also will be useful


Of course you can truce break, christian nations wouldn't care much so with good alliances - like bigger Sunni nations you can avoid coalitions

 

[RedArmy]

Vassalize Byzantium before Ottomans can conquer them
Don't make peace with Ottomans as soon as possible. If war last longer other nations may declare on them and take some land too.
Reconquest is cheaper so you can use reconquest for some areas - Bulgaria has many cores, Byzantium also but you need to integrate them to form Rum so this should be your first reconquest war
Use their alliances to make the truce shorter if possible
Use diplomatic ideas for cheaper province warscore cost, additional diplomats also will be useful


Of course you can truce break, christian nations wouldn't care much so with good alliances - like bigger Sunni nations you can avoid coalitions

Shouldn’t I use instead Influence ideas to make integrating vassals cheaper? Also, warscore cost reduction in diplomatic ideas is at the end.

 

[Fenrirwolf]

Shouldn’t I use instead Influence ideas to make integrating vassals cheaper? Also, warscore cost reduction in diplomatic ideas is at the end.

no, early influence is a trap. saving 1200 diplo from integration takes a long time (if you only take the first 3 ideas), and early diplo ideas will slow down your vassal integration heavily due to innvesting in both ideas and integrating.
either core with admin and take influence, or integrate and take an admin idea

 

[RedArmy]

no, early influence is a trap. saving 1200 diplo from integration takes a long time (if you only take the first 3 ideas), and early diplo ideas will slow down your vassal integration heavily due to innvesting in both ideas and integrating.
either core with admin and take influence, or integrate and take an admin idea

So, maybe I should choose neither an admin idea group nor a diplo idea group, but rather begin with a military one to save my diplo points for integrating and my admin points for coring turkish states.

Aristocratic ideas seems good as they offer a diplomat, siege capacity, monthly autonomy reduction, and military technology reduction.

 

[necro84]

Shouldn’t I use instead Influence ideas to make integrating vassals cheaper? Also, warscore cost reduction in diplomatic ideas is at the end.

You can go few techs behind in diplo. You need only tech 4 for marketplaces, later techs 7 and 8 give morale of navies but at this point you should have bigger fleet than Ottomans and it wouldn't matter. This mean that in 1475 you can have cheaper warscore if you wish. Sometimest it will help, sometimes it wouldn't matter.

You don't need to integrate all the vassals to form Rum

requirements are
Ottomans and Byzantium do not exist.
owns its core provinces: Constantinople (151), Kocaeli (316), Konya (323), Ankara (326), Sivas (329), Erzurum (331), Kayseri (2301) and Sultanönü (4312).

You need to integrate Byzantium and from Anatolian vassals you can sieze land if you need only one province from each.

 

[Fenrirwolf]

So, maybe I should choose neither an admin idea group nor a diplo idea group, but rather begin with a military one to save my diplo points for integrating and my admin points for coring turkish states.

Aristocratic ideas seems good as they offer a diplomat, siege capacity, monthly autonomy reduction, and military technology reduction.

mil idea first is okay, but remember: mil tech is more important than mil ideas

 

[st360]

Declare war on them, take land. Right after you core it, declare war on a Ottomana ally, it brings them into war, take more land from the Ottomans. Then declare war on a second ally of the Ottomans, etc... It also works for nations the Ottomans is guaranteeing.

 

[necro84]

@st360 it wouldn't make defeating Ottomans quicker because cost of the provinces is doubled. It's better to declare on ally just for white peace with the Ottomans and shorter truce. Declare again in 5 years for normal cost. And if the previous war was reconquest you don't need to wait for coring to complete because your subject already has cores so you can declare on their ally just after the war

 

[RedArmy]

Thank you, all these comments are very useful.

I have just begun a new campaign, and I got incredibly lucky. Ottomans allied AQ and attacked Epirus, so I immediately DoW them for the conquest of Teke, and their whole army of 30k was trapped by my navy in Cephalonia! Now I am carpet sieging Anatolia and Epirus is carpet sieging Greece in a separate war. ^^

Edit:

 

[jamal bakr]

the old trick as castille, poland or austria was to no-cb byzantines, occupy their stuff and sit on it till the turks get greedy and declare on the byzantines as well. Then peace out the byzantines using force vassalization, which then means you inherit their war with the ottomans except you can call in all your allies and he can't. I dunno if thats all necessary with the mamelukes or if you can just 1v1 them easily. Anyway, in your first peace deal you take back all of the byz cores and the ottomans never really get going after that, you can just do the rest of the balkan/anatolian byz quests for free claims and the turks then are a beaten rump state by like 1465.

 

[RedArmy]

The no-cb thing is really a lot of AE and is really not necessary. I was able to vassalize Byzantium in my second war around 1447/1448 just after my first war against the Ottomans.

By the way, I have finally been able to destroy the Ottomans in september 1466! And I am integrating Byzantium, it should be achieved in january 1474, so Rûm formed in 30 years!

 

[necro84]

You need Ankara too, one more subject to integrate

 

[holyvigil]

You need Ankara too, one more subject to integrate

Maybe he could seize that province.

 

[necro84]

I don't see any other forts so it seems it's the capital and this would be impossible

 

[Elminster12]

It's not hard to do early if you're big. Do whatever you can to kneecap their expansion, make sure you have a good web of alliances so you don't have to do all the heavy lifting yourself(ideally) and to ward off opportunistic war decs, and/or strike at an opportune moment (i.e. when they're fighting another biggish opponent).

mil idea first is okay, but remember: mil tech is more important than mil ideas

Defensive would be good for this: +15% morale is only the second idea and makes a big difference, especially early on when other modifiers are in short supply. The rest of the set is nice to have but not pressing. You could treat it like Admin: just go two in and save the rest of your mana for other things (tech and generals, in this case).

 

[RedArmy]

You need Ankara too, one more subject to integrate

Yes, I did integrate them too. They are smaller, it was a lot faster than Eretna.
Byzantium was very long to integrate, I seized some provinces to do it faster.

It's now 1564, I formed Rûm around a hundred years ago. I decided to turn my religion to Coptic so that I could PU some other European countries and later form the Roman Empire. I managed to put my dynasty on the Portugese throne, so now I am going to claim the throne! I am also colonizing India, Australia and Indonesia. It's a fun run!