How to declare war over many de jure claims at once?

[candelarius]

As William the Conqueror, I successfully won the battle (series of battles, actually) that won me the crown of England, only to find that the king of Norway still controls all of northern England. I have de jure claims on all the counties, and most of the barons and cities recognize me as king, but all the counts recognize Norway as their liege. I declared war against Norway, but had to select one title as my claim (I selected Duke of Lancaster). After occupying all of the counties and finally winning all the battles, losing thousands of troops in the process, I finally won the war against Norway....but after the peace settlement, I ended up only actually winning the single county of Lancaster! All the other counties reverted back to the king of Norway.

I now need to declare war again for the rest of the counties. There's a bunch of them, so it would take forever to declare war on every single county and wage a long series of battles just to get that one to my kingdom.

So, my question: How do I press ALL the claims for northern England? How to I declare a war, occupy all the territories, and then win them all in one campaign? Or do I have to fight, win, peace, fight, win, peace, repeat, for every single county?

 

[Sarog]

Or do I have to fight, win, peace, fight, win, peace, repeat, for every single county?

Eeyup

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

As William the Conqueror, I successfully won the battle (series of battles, actually) that won me the crown of England, only to find that the king of Norway still controls all of northern England. I have de jure claims on all the counties, and most of the barons and cities recognize me as king, but all the counts recognize Norway as their liege. I declared war against Norway, but had to select one title as my claim (I selected Duke of Lancaster). After occupying all of the counties and finally winning all the battles, losing thousands of troops in the process, I finally won the war against Norway....but after the peace settlement, I ended up only actually winning the single county of Lancaster! All the other counties reverted back to the king of Norway.

I now need to declare war again for the rest of the counties. There's a bunch of them, so it would take forever to declare war on every single county and wage a long series of battles just to get that one to my kingdom.

So, my question: How do I press ALL the claims for northern England? How to I declare a war, occupy all the territories, and then win them all in one campaign? Or do I have to fight, win, peace, fight, win, peace, repeat, for every single county?

Wait, how's possible that Norway controls counties in England? Did Norway win the invasion first, and then break down by inheritance, with pieces of England going to Norway?

P.S. The answer is 'you can't'. There are so much better ways to expand than de jure CBs.

 

[candelarius]

Norway and England were at war. I went to war with England. During the war with England, Norway and England settled their differences, leaving the northern half of England to Norway and me fighting the southern half. When I beat the southern remaining half, that's all I got; Norway still retains the northern half.

So how can I now go about conquering the northern half, aside from de jury CBs?

 

[HKFlash]

Norway and England were at war. I went to war with England. During the war with England, Norway and England settled their differences, leaving the northern half of England to Norway and me fighting the southern half. When I beat the southern remaining half, that's all I got; Norway still retains the northern half.

So how can I now go about conquering the northern half, aside from de jury CBs?

I really don't understand how the ERE could receive those massive Imperial Reconquest CB (which I agree with but I think it should be phased out like many have pointed out) but the realms that want their lands back, lands that are theirs by LAW, have to declare one war at a time. Anyway the solution is to forge a claim on the Duchy you are trying to recover through the plot system.

 

[candelarius]

Mmmm...ok, I shall give that a whirl next. Thanks.

 

[HKFlash]

Mmmm...ok, I shall give that a whirl next. Thanks.

Tell me if it worked. You need to have one county of the duchy you want to forge the claim for the plot to become available but I think you already did that.

 

[Flamestalker]

Here is a list with options that should work.

1 : Fabricate a bunch of claims through your Chancellor and press those together. you'll need a very good Chancellor and hope he gets you duchy claims, but this grows expensive very quickly.
2 : Invite people with duchy claims to your court and push their claims. since it is de jure they become your vassel.
3 : Play the marriage game and inherit the duchies.
4 : Wait for or try to get the counts and dukes within de jure England to rebel against Norway. You can now declare de jure claims against the individual counts/dukes and snatch them away during their war with Norway.
5 : attack Norway as a whole and claim all of Norway via a Claim or an Invasion. if you don't want Norway, just destroy the title and have the dukes go independent when they inevitably start to rebel.

 

[Astanna]

Norway's probably bigger than you, so try and make the Pope love you and do your best to get an Invasion CB against Norway. If you don't want control of Norway afterwards, you can give the kingdom to one of the dukes of Norway, or a courtier with a cool dynasty. { I once had a "Mann Caliphite" for Egypt. It also controlled the Mamluks. }

 

[candelarius]

Tell me if it worked. You need to have one county of the duchy you want to forge the claim for the plot to become available but I think you already did that.

I'm targeting northern England: So far I have the title of duke of Lancaster, and that single county, Lancaster, recognizes me as liege lord. But the other counties do not. I'm not sure how to get them to come to my camp vs Norway's, whom they currently recognize.

As for York, luckily the current duke, who is also duke of Northumbria, just rebelled via a plot. I was able to imprison him, he rebelled, so I took his title. So, I'm not duke of York. The current count of York recognizes Norway as liege, but I was just able to fabricate a claim against her, too. So, my next bet is to declare war on Norway to take the country of York, to go along with my ducal claim. But I have to wait until 1089, three more years, until the current truce expires.

Any way to void a truce?

 

[cyrileom]

Any way to void a truce?

Two ways, one of which is so much easier than the other: Kill yourself, or kill the other ruler. It's as simple as that. Then the truce gets erased.

 

[Zorlond]

Here is a list with options that should work.

1 : Fabricate a bunch of claims through your Chancellor and press those together. you'll need a very good Chancellor and hope he gets you duchy claims, but this grows expensive very quickly.
2 : Invite people with duchy claims to your court and push their claims. since it is de jure they become your vassel.
3 : Play the marriage game and inherit the duchies.
4 : Wait for or try to get the counts and dukes within de jure England to rebel against Norway. You can now declare de jure claims against the individual counts/dukes and snatch them away during their war with Norway.
5 : attack Norway as a whole and claim all of Norway via a Claim or an Invasion. if you don't want Norway, just destroy the title and have the dukes go independent when they inevitably start to rebel.

#4 tends to be the most effective of the list. Just make sure you don't go after the leader of the rebellions until after you've taken all the supporters.

But to add to this list, I'd like to just say that Peace Treaties are liked to characters, not to nations or titles. If the king of Norway loses his position (by dying, by rebellion, or by stepping down), the peace treaty goes away and you can war dec again.

 

[Eldorian]

I really think you ought to be able to de jure CB for all holdings in specific duchy/kingdom vs specific ruler. It gets particularlly annoying when you're doing county claims, as if you have 3 baronies held by some guy in one of your duchies, it takes 3 separate wars to reclaim them.

 

[candelarius]

I really think you ought to be able to de jure CB for all holdings in specific duchy/kingdom vs specific ruler. It gets particularlly annoying when you're doing county claims, as if you have 3 baronies held by some guy in one of your duchies, it takes 3 separate wars to reclaim them.

Agree totally.

Two ways, one of which is so much easier than the other: Kill yourself, or kill the other ruler. It's as simple as that. Then the truce gets erased.

Thanks, that's good to know.

#4 tends to be the most effective of the list. Just make sure you don't go after the leader of the rebellions until after you've taken all the supporters.

Thanks, I'll try that next, too.

 

[Roguedemon]

I really think you ought to be able to de jure CB for all holdings in specific duchy/kingdom vs specific ruler. It gets particularlly annoying when you're doing county claims, as if you have 3 baronies held by some guy in one of your duchies, it takes 3 separate wars to reclaim them.

I think you should be able to press all claims for baronies within counties you own simultaneously, but I am of the opinion that you should only be able to conquer one duchy at a time otherwise (with some exceptions like crusades or title claims). Dejure land is there to allow you to have CB's for reconquest of land that is rightfully yours, not so that every succesful war results in kingdoms returning to their 'default' shape. You can always break the truce - this allows you to basically reconquer quickly, but your reputation will suffer.

 

[Eldorian]

I think you should be able to press all claims for baronies within counties you own simultaneously, but I am of the opinion that you should only be able to conquer one duchy at a time otherwise (with some exceptions like crusades or title claims). Dejure land is there to allow you to have CB's for reconquest of land that is rightfully yours, not so that every succesful war results in kingdoms returning to their 'default' shape. You can always break the truce - this allows you to basically reconquer quickly, but your reputation will suffer.

Yeah, Duchy is probably enough, but currently, the de jure CB is county only.

 

[Roguedemon]

Yeah, Duchy is probably enough, but currently, the de jure CB is county only.

I didn't realise you couldn't reconquer whole duchies. Shows how little attention I actually pay to what causes I'm sending men to die for. On thinking about it, I think you should only be able to reconquer whole dejure duchies from kings and emporers (independent dukes and counts are already in a precarious enough position in vanilla).

 

[Comradebot]

I didn't realise you couldn't reconquer whole duchies. Shows how little attention I actually pay to what causes I'm sending men to die for. On thinking about it, I think you should only be able to reconquer whole dejure duchies from kings and emporers (independent dukes and counts are already in a precarious enough position in vanilla).

Then you're not thinking about it beyond "Boy, I wish I could expand even faster."

The de jure claim system is very well balanced at the moment. Its permanent, free, isn't reliant on the life of a specific individual, and won't cause religious brothers to dogpile you, but you only get a county at a time. There's other means to take duchies, almost all of which have a down side like requiring a claimant or potentially incurring the wrath of every Sunni in Iberia or potentially expiring when your ruler bites it and his claim goes "poof".

I've said it before and I"ll say it again: giving realms the ability to take a duchy with a de jure claim would be broken, as its already stupid easy to expand in this game (not to mention, as pointed out in this thread, there's a healthy number of ways to circumvent it, some of which would become pointless to use as a CB if you could de jure duchy claim). Why they decided the ERE gets a special exemption from this rule is beyond me, as its incredibly broken, too.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Get claims - declare war for each claim - raise troops - win - tadaa

 

[Heartsbane]

You can't and this is why de jure claims are probably the least efficient means of expansion in most cases. Fabricate claims you can stack and press all but pressing multiple de jure claims (especially against a single monarch) isn't that practical. De Jure claims are best used when you are a smaller vassal like a count and you have just usurped or created a duchy, if you are pressing a vassals de jure claim to complete their de jure lands, or if you have created a kingdom title and your de jure lands are divided among several powers and you won't have to worry about truces. De jure claims have their uses but much like mercenaries their use diminishes significantly the larger your kingdom gets.

Your situation kinda sucks as you will be retaking your lands all from the same king so perhaps it would just be better to stack fabricated claims and press all to get the rest of England in a single war.