How to Deal w/ Fanatic Purifiers in Early Game?

[General Waluigi]

I recently got back into the Game because of the Unity rework and I created a unity-based empire to test out the changes. The first neighbors that I met were Fanatic Purifiers (Fanatic Xenophobe, Spiritualist) and They've declared war on me twice. Both times I was able to white peace and keep hold of my bottleneck fortress system. However, in both wars, it seemed that my ships, despite all available upgrades, were unable to fight theirs when around similar military power. Unfortunately, the surrounding alien empires don't seem interested in defensive pacts.
My start was the 30-size ocean world origin, and I was only able to acquire xenos for colonization shortly before the 1st war (via invading primitives). Any tips for actually fending them off?
Here's a picture of the galaxy.

 

[KNakamura]

Did you try different weapons loadouts? Usually when you run into that kind of thing at parity, it's likely your setup is the precise wrong one for their layout.

 

[General Waluigi]

Did you try different weapons loadouts? Usually when you run into that kind of thing at parity, it's likely your setup is the precise wrong one for their layout.

I don't have many weapons to switch between. Simply put, RNG has not been kind in terms of my engineering tech card rolls. Most of my ship upgrades have been for weapons that I started with (kinetic/laser) or for the hulls. The only other major engineering tech for warfare that I rolled & researched was the Starhold tech.
Also, how can I view their ship layouts? It's been quite a while since I played Stellaris.

 

[Tamwin5]

When you declare a war, there is an option you can click on the select cases belli screen that lets you invite attackers. If people won't help you on the defense, maybe they'll help in an aggressive war? I wouldn't count on the AI to be helpful though.

Also, how can I view their ship layouts? It's been quite a while since I played Stellaris.

You need very high intel on them. Not really feasible early game, but possibly doable by running the "gather information" operation with a military asset. You can also look at a combat report, and see how much damage they did with the various weapons (and how much they took on armor vs shields).

 

[General Waluigi]

When you declare a war, there is an option you can click on the select cases belli screen that lets you invite attackers. If people won't help you on the defense, maybe they'll help in an aggressive war? I wouldn't count on the AI to be helpful though.

It's more or less that I want the FP AI to be distracted and split his fleets. If I can separate his fleets somewhat, then I definitely have a shot. Otherwise, they'll end up just sitting in the system next to my fortress system doing nothing like the last war. Also, thanks for the info about ship layouts. I should probably mention that my empire is working on subterfuge traditions. Would that help get the intel required, or does that help with some other area of espionage?

 

[Bezborg]

I recommend purification by fire. You know this to be true, James Raynor

 

[Ryika]

The easiest way to defeat an AI that's stronger than you is to ignore their fleets and just go counter-attack. Bring a large army and intercept theirs if possible, and you'll take all of their planets while they're still bombing the first of your planets that they happen to have come across, not knowing what to do.

It's a purifier, so take all of their planets and they die.

 

[Tamwin5]

It's more or less that I want the FP AI to be distracted and split his fleets. If I can separate his fleets somewhat, then I definitely have a shot. Otherwise, they'll end up just sitting in the system next to my fortress system doing nothing like the last war. Also, thanks for the info about ship layouts. I should probably mention that my empire is working on subterfuge traditions. Would that help get the intel required, or does that help with some other area of espionage?

Espionage helps a bit, but honestly it's a bad tree. You need high military info in order to see ship loadouts, which either comes at 90+ intel (and thus 90+ infiltration) or by using the Gather Information operation and getting military intel (which is much more likely if you have a military asset to assign).

Having an AI in the war would definitely help for getting them to stop sitting at the border, or at the very least have them lose some systems/planets while they did so.

It probably would have been more useful to go diplomacy to get some other AIs on your side, or supremacy/unyielding to have a stronger fleet/defenses. Subterfuge does help, in that it makes operations easier and infiltration faster, but it's not a big enough difference to be worth the tradition pick in general.

 

[Slaughter]

The easiest way to defeat an AI that's stronger than you is to ignore their fleets and just go counter-attack. Bring a large army and intercept theirs if possible, and you'll take all of their planets while they're still bombing the first of your planets that they happen to have come across, not knowing what to do.

It's a purifier, so take all of their planets and they die.

That's a good idea. Depending on how strong his fleet is and how much army power he can make, that could work. Bypass enemy fleet, bring in a fleet big enough to kill any enemy starbases, kill starbase, take enemy planet, avoid fleets, keep at until no more planets. Just make sure your planets will last long to do this.

Generally, a 500-1k army is good for decent and fast planet-taking with minimal losses. AI rarely bothers with things like making proper fortress worlds and garrison armies.

 

[klopkr]

The easiest way to defeat an AI that's stronger than you is to ignore their fleets and just go counter-attack. Bring a large army and intercept theirs if possible, and you'll take all of their planets while they're still bombing the first of your planets that they happen to have come across, not knowing what to do.

It's a purifier, so take all of their planets and they die.

It's sad but this is exactly the way to do it.

Build up immense ground armies on your most accessible worlds, let the AI move through your space to it and start bombing forever then just go behind them and take everything back. So long as their fleets are fixated on bombing the planets you can probably time them out and take more general space from them.

In CB wars you can do the same but easier by just goading the AI past their claims and then taking back all the space they moved through.

 

[Ussnorway]

I agree with building armies but I would take a better look at your fleets because that is where things are letting you down

First your power should be uped to 200 and put more effort into the design... Are you going lasers or guns (please tell us it isn't mixed), have you got cruisers yet?

Regardless of play style a bigger fleet is always worth investing towards

 

[General Waluigi]

I agree with building armies but I would take a better look at your fleets because that is where things are letting you down

First your power should be uped to 200 and put more effort into the design... Are you going lasers or guns (please tell us it isn't mixed), have you got cruisers yet?

Regardless of play style a bigger fleet is always worth investing towards

They were mixed. If it's better to specialize ships, should I use corvettes to attack shields and destroyers to attack armor?
As mentioned in the first post, RNG for tech has not been kind, so I haven't got cruisers yet.

 

[Lanferite]

Could you provide a savegame? Sadly I don't play beta but maybe someone could look into it.
Hate to be that guy but you're likely doing it wrong, as by the year 64 you have mere 300 science, beta or not, also too much resources are gathering dust, they should've been put into work.

 

[Jman5]

Use your empire type's advantage: Diplomacy

Genocidals' military advantages are offset by the fact that they can't make any friends. Convince a neighbor to sign a defensive pact and then overwhelm him with your combined fleets if he attacks again.

 

[Limbojack]

Wait until you've unlocked cruisers (if you haven't already). Make a couple of carrier cruisers, then watch them tear the AI apart from afar. As long as you can keep your fortress system from falling, you have all the time in the world to out-tech your enemy.

 

[Ussnorway]

They were mixed. If it's better to specialize ships, should I use corvettes to attack shields and destroyers to attack armor?
As mentioned in the first post, RNG for tech has not been kind, so I haven't got cruisers yet.

If all you have is first tech then missiles are the best option with Lazer or gun as you like but no don't mix them... A trust unit is worth adding

For destroyer a main gun / laser with pickets and perhaps another thrust

 

[gamerk2]

Generally, the best way to defend yourself is to make sure you are strong enough where any Fanatics decides to target someone else instead. Just keep your fleetpower up, get a 20 stack of Corvettes within the first 10 years, and ideally a second stack within the next 10. Make yourself the Swiss; too powerful to bother with.

 

[hart30]

Seen ai empires do exactly that. They went full fortress/defense mode. Due to this the purifier targeted all other neighbours. In the end the fortress ai empires ended up as an island inside of large purifier territory, surrounding it from all sides. So having friends is desirable.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

If you're able to defend yourself with your fortress, I'd continue with that strategy, and focus on teching while maximising your defensive advantage. In the meantime, try to join a federation, or get defense pacts.

Once you have a decisive tech advantage, defeating the purifier should be much easier.

 

[hart30]

The issue is - sooner or later the purifier attacks with enough fleetpower to take down the choke starbase and defending fleet. Sure if u have a planetary shield and -98% bombardment damage on ur choke planet u can usually outlast the war without ur planetary ftl breaking, but purifiers have armageddon bombardment. So after a while ur planet turns into a tombworld and the purifier fleets freely waltz in. In this regard it is easier to defend against an exterminator or swarm.
What is needed are friends in order to get breathing air. Because without room to breathe u cannot outtech a purifier, which gains more and more territory and with it tech/eco power the more ai neighbours it kills.