How to conquer Portugal as Castile ~1444

[iLoveApples]

Wanted to play as a European once more and be the biggest coloniser and chose Castile. I want to vassalise Portugal (do they still colonise as vassals?) or at the very least conquer the two islands they have.

The problem I have is that they ally Aragon on day two, but their combined land units aren't much of a problem and I can beat both of them (although it depletes my manpower). It's the Aragonese navy that's the problem. I have 6 cogs, 7 early carracks and 7 barques. Around 1450 the Aragonese have 9 barques around 1450 and 14 galleys and I lose this one and my entire navy sinks in one go (this is not in an inland sea). The Portuguese navy doesn't look too hard however I never really fought them.

I have been trying to find allies, I was lucky to ally Morocco once and they actually helped a bit while Aragon was fighting Austria and others. At that point my navy was already gone though and the Portuguese didn't allow me to reach the islands. Other times I allied Burgundy and France but they are both useless.

So I want to know: is it a good idea to DoW Portugal on day one? Then to take the islands and as many of their other provinces as I can and then DoW them (twice I believe) after the truce and vassalise them. Any suggestion is appreciated.

 

[Viperswhip]

I do this every time I play Castille, though it's more useful to vassalize them in the end, and sell them back their provinces you take (ie. don't waste the admin points coring them), so they colonize for you and you can concentrate on France.

These days DOAing on Portugal is a bit more dangerous than before, sure their troops are likely being shipped to France (if you don't DoA on day one), but when they make peace with France, which they will, sooner rather than later, England will land 14-16 troops at a time on your shores. The AI landing troops is much improved in 1.5. There is also no guarantee that Aragon will not still ally with them and get called into the war (I think it's 60 days or something).

I would still take their rich provinces first so they have fewer troops when you go to war the next time, but you are correct, it will take 3 wars to vassalize them.

I haven't played Castille in 1.5 but I consider vassalizing Portugal a key to victory but mostly because I hate colonizing but don't want to leave it all open to foreign powers. Give Portugal's provinces back to them because they need that wealth to power your colonization efforts.

 

[iLoveApples]

I do this every time I play Castille, though it's more useful to vassalize them in the end, and sell them back their provinces you take (ie. don't waste the admin points coring them), so they colonize for you and you can concentrate on France.

Good to know they still colonise.

These days DOAing on Portugal is a bit more dangerous than before, sure their troops are likely being shipped to France (if you don't DoA on day one), but when they make peace with France, which they will, sooner rather than later, England will land 14-16 troops at a time on your shores. The AI landing troops is much improved in 1.5. There is also no guarantee that Aragon will not still ally with them and get called into the war (I think it's 60 days or something).

Portugal shipping troops to France? The last 10 games I have played (never further than 1455) they never joined England against France (might be 1.5).
England also breaks their alliance with Portugal when I declare war. There seems to be a problem with the HYW this version because in 1455 it hasn't ended yet.
Aragon joining in or not is a bit of risk (but I'll see it when it starts, otherwise I can always keep restarting until they are friendly and then ally them and DoW Portugal before Aragon becomes friendly with them as well).

I haven't played Castille in 1.5 but I consider vassalizing Portugal a key to victory but mostly because I hate colonizing but don't want to leave it all open to foreign powers. Give Portugal's provinces back to them because they need that wealth to power your colonization efforts.

I have no problem with colonising, but a vassal offers extra manpower so I can easily rush into the Caribbean and East America without worrying about South America.
I will have to be overextended for a while right?

EDIT: DoWing them on day one does not cause Aragon to join them (even though they allied afterwards), but England does join (making trouble :/). DoWing with a claim always kicks them out of the equation.

 

[unmerged(779238)]

These days DOAing on Portugal is a bit more dangerous than before, sure their troops are likely being shipped to France (if you don't DoA on day one), but when they make peace with France, which they will, sooner rather than later, England will land 14-16 troops at a time on your shores. The AI landing troops is much improved in 1.5. There is also no guarantee that Aragon will not still ally with them and get called into the war (I think it's 60 days or something).

I, as England, in 1.5 could not call Portugal into the HYW because of the 60 days malus, so they will stay at home.
btw I don't really see the need to vassalize them, just marry and wait for the PU\force a PU once you are in the same dinasty.

 

[Viperswhip]

I, as England, in 1.5 could not call Portugal into the HYW because of the 60 days malus, so they will stay at home.
btw I don't really see the need to vassalize them, just marry and wait for the PU\force a PU once you are in the same dinasty.

Well, you can call them but it requires a second war, then they join the first. There is no guarantee you will end up from the same dynasty unless you copy their royal marriages, and even that has risk and is sub optimal from a planning perspective.

Wars are good as well, they boost your army tradition, though the instant you have an heir you should make your king a general. You need to get rid of these losers as fast as possible and try to get a lady in charge heh

 

[iLoveApples]

I, as England, in 1.5 could not call Portugal into the HYW because of the 60 days malus, so they will stay at home.
btw I don't really see the need to vassalize them, just marry and wait for the PU\force a PU once you are in the same dinasty.

Of all the games I have played I have seen Portugal end up under a PU with England only once. It requires too much luck. Or do you mean the decision you get around 1600 (or something like that)? If so, I want to be the main coloniser right away, which is why I want to beat them up.

Well, you can call them but it requires a second war, then they join the first. There is no guarantee you will end up from the same dynasty unless you copy their royal marriages, and even that has risk and is sub optimal from a planning perspective.

Wars are good as well, they boost your army tradition, though the instant you have an heir you should make your king a general. You need to get rid of these losers as fast as possible and try to get a lady in charge heh

The Castilian heir is 0/0/0, we need to get rid of him first .

Also I just started a "peaceful" game and allied Portugal and England and Navarra. Navarra ended up under me in a PU (yay, one county I can't annex for the next 50 years) and Portugal joined me in the war against Aragon, so at least their alliance is broken, so I got that going for me, which is nice.

 

[Viperswhip]

Of all the games I have played I have seen Portugal end up under a PU with England only once. It requires too much luck. Or do you mean the decision you get around 1600 (or something like that)? If so, I want to be the main coloniser right away, which is why I want to beat them up.


The Castilian heir is 0/0/0, we need to get rid of him first .

Also I just started a "peaceful" game and allied Portugal and England and Navarra. Navarra ended up under me in a PU (yay, one county I can't annex for the next 50 years) and Portugal joined me in the war against Aragon, so at least their alliance is broken, so I got that going for me, which is nice.

Ya, that's what I meant by losers. You have no idea how many infantry units I've sacrificed to try to kill them off. I think Isabel might be 3rd or 4th then you get the wedding and everything is better.