How to build a powerful Navy from nothing: Operational Example

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Dinglehoff

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Let me stress this point a bit more as well as rephrasing it:

If your Navy has problems with NAV your best answere, if somehow possible, is NOT some brigades on ships but land-based interceptors or fighters... or even an invasion to get rid of those naval bombers and/or their airports.

And if enemy NAVs attack your ports, make sure to station some interceptors there and to construct some static AA. A well defended port can be a hard nut to crack.
Yes, the air alternatives are preferable. They are usually possible in Europe but less so while doing transatlantic or pacific operations. If I'm desperate I'll throw up some TAC or STR air and see if they can fight them off.
It seems sometimes that the AI will use NAV freely, but will slam you with every other kind of plane if you start doing it to them also.
 

Amberle

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I have such huge issues detecting and getting rid of subs. There's always a small group of 2-3 old subs that haunts me all game. Which made me search many threads on how to counter the issue. It should be fairly simple, doctrines and dd with asw. But most threads also often says to use cve, but why? They have inferior sub detection and attack than relative modern dd, so what's the use? I see they have very good sea detection, but that doesn't matter against subs right? Also slow which I hate.

Please enlighten me.

I guess if I meet other raiding fleets than subs they could be useful for soaking damage and detecting. Otherwise I see no purpose.

A bit off topic but naval bombers will not damage submarines at all right ?
 
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Altruist

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I have such huge issues detecting and getting rid of subs. There's always a small group of 2-3 old subs that haunts me all game. Which made me search many threads on how to counter the issue. It should be fairly simple, doctrines and dd with asw.
Yes.

But most threads also often says to use cve, but why? They have inferior sub detection and attack than relative modern dd, so what's the use? I see they have very good sea detection, but that doesn't matter against subs right? Also slow which I hate.

Please enlighten me.

I guess if I meet other raiding fleets than subs they could be useful for soaking damage and detecting. Otherwise I see no purpose.
Correct, adding CVE to a sub-hunting DD fleet isn't primarily vs subs but vs an enemy DD-hunter-fleet.
Example:
5 DDs/asw + 1 CVE
Against subs they will automatically use the prefered firing range of the screens (=DDs) but against anything else they will use the prefered firing range of the capital ship which in this case is the CVE with 36 (CVE II) or 38 (CVE III). 36 or 38 is quite good and can keep away all CL, CA and with some luck even older BC and BB if those are not equipped with FC and/or FP brigades.
A DD fleet with 1 CVE has even a good chance to have a lower visibility and higher sea detection than the enemy fleet which again gives a good chance to really fight the battle at the prefered firing range of the CVE. In this case the CVE might not soaking up damage but keeping even out of range of the enemy ships while doing a very minimal damage itself... in any way it buys some time to retreat the fleet with none or only minimal damage taken.

Nevertheless I'd call the addition of a CVE completly optional.
But it is one of the very few useful things to do with a CVE... so, I guess, worth mentioning.
And while DDs are better sub-hunters than CVEs, the CVE is the only capital ship with at least a decent sub-attack and detection.

A bit off topic but naval bombers will not damage submarines at all right ?
Because they have no specific sub-attack value?
Mmh, to be honest... my fuzzy memory, I am not 100% sure but I'd say, yes, they do attack subs and quite well (which is only historically). Subs have a good air defense but only a lowly air-attack of 1.
 
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Amberle

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I had great success in my last game, I added cve and I found the subs somewhat easily this time around compared to just dd's(could be a coincidence though), and I was able to hold off smaller raiding fleets. I have a new appreciation for cve after this run.

So vs surface fleets it's always the capital ships firing range that is the limiting factor? So what screens I use matters less? That's the gist from the hoi2 wiki if I read it correctly.

Your guide is immense!
 
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Manasian

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The other advantage of the CVE is that with the 29/41 tech (CVL) it becomes so cheap that it even beats the DD in IC cost. It is perhaps even more cost-effective to make anti-sub fleets only with CVE (with floatplane).
 
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SpaceViking

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A CVE-5 with 1944 tech costs 0.4 IC/0.9 manpower and has 8/12/42 sub attack/detection/range. CVE-4 (1941) cost 0.2 IC/0.9 manpower and are 7/10/40. A DD with 1945 tech costs 1.1 IC/1.6 manpower and has 14/17/20 for those stats. So you can build almost 3 CVEs (6 of the earlier model) for the cost of 1 DD though the DDs are a bit better stat wise except range. Toss in ASW for the DD and it costs 1.3 IC and has 19/21/20.

I wonder if 3 CVEs are really better versus a SUB than 1 DD? Being better able to spot them should be a huge advantage though I don't know what the numbers actually mean.

In my last JAP game I did have a CVE+others chase off a US BB based fleet off the coast of Japan and sink the BB. It was even the CVE-1 that JAP starts with IIRC.
 
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