How to break a treay between France & the Ottomans

[IrishGirl]

Title. Playing as England. It's not even 1480 and France has allied with the Ottomans. 46,000 Ottoman troops are parked near Paris waiting to help them steamroll the known map. (Burgandy stupidly declared a war on France). Collectively they have over 60k troops.

As a major power, I can "intervene" but, no, I want no part of that fight. In fact, if France declares war on me - which seems HIGHLY likely now - I'm going to have to peace out just to survive - which probably means losing all my territories in France.

Do I just start over and hope this doesn't happen again? The fact that they can even do this suggests that there's some non-gamey solution, but I have no idea what it would be.

Edit: My allies are Castile (which just got the Iberian Wedding) and Austria.

Thanks for any help.

 

[cuendillar]

Can you handle either of them individually (say France, for the sake of clarity) with your allies' help?
If so, find another ally of theirs and dow them, without naming France as a cobelligerent. The main target for said war would then be to force France to break alliance with the Ottoman. Feel free to make them revoke cores or give you cash/war reps if you want to - but the treaty break is vital. They'll probably pick up another (weaker) ally before the Ottomans are able to re-ally them which neatly solves your conundrum.

Of course, if there's no suitable ally of theirs or they're too strong to take on in a war, this might not be applicable at all.

 

[Viktor Vaughn]

Yeah you either have to take one of their allies (no-CB Provence or wait until France allies Scotland) on and make them break treaty, or find a different route of expansion (colonising, Scandinavia) and then come back later.

 

[LeifNyerikson]

Additionally, there are times when a war exhausted and indebted country might not join a war of their allies' because of how bad a shape their country is in. If either goes to war, it's worth monitoring how those are going and checking to see if they'd help each other ina defensive war.

Unfortunately, those are two of the richest and most powerful countries so it's unluckily they'd get beat up to a level where they wouldn't support each other. Still, you never know what some subsidies to someone like a strong Mamluks or Austria might do.

 

[IrishGirl]

Do subsidies really help? I've never used them before.

God, if they do, I'm making 19.3 ducats per turn, just defeated ... eh, united ... Scotland and Ireland, and I'm happy go throw some gold at whoever hates the Ottomans the most.

 

[Vulkandrache]

Title. Playing as England. It's not even 1480 and France has allied with the Ottomans. 46,000 Ottoman troops are parked near Paris waiting to help them steamroll the known map. (Burgandy stupidly declared a war on France). Collectively they have over 60k troops.

Stop looking at only the stuff next to you.

If that many of the Ottoman troops are parked in France then whos defending their home turf?
They cant touch England proper because Navy, so you can take half of you 15some Heavies and all your transports to the Bosporus and declare on France.
By the time the Ottomans have walked back you have sieged down the Asian side of the strait and can occupy Anatolia unopposed.
Seperate peace Otto for money warreps and annul treaties, then go back and deal with France.

Still, you never know what some subsidies to someone like a strong Mamluks or Austria might do.

Do subsidies really help? I've never used them before.

Subsidies you can throw around once you have infinite money.
Expecting the AI to make better use of ducats than you ever could is something i cant express in child friendly terms.

 

[Hylian Spectre]

The best way to break the treaty is to lure the French into a petty war against someone like Provence and then force them to annul as part of the peace like mentioned above, but if that's not an option...

If you really have that kind of money sitting around, then it's worth a try I suppose, but to me, Ducats are always better spent in the player's hands... More heavy ships/Mercs, etc. Worse case scenario if you did have to go to war with both (defensively), you should able to at least stop the Ottoman fleet from leaving the Mediterranean by parking your fleet off the coast of Gibraltar, since that is the last tile of "open seas" where your OP English heavy ships can wreak havoc. It is also conveniently the only way to leave the area, essentially dooming any Turkish sailor who might be dumb enough to try. Only thing would be to make sure that you've first sank the French navy that may be hanging around near the English Channel so that they can't sneak stacks onto the English mainland.

Another thing that I find helpful as England is to delete the forts from Normandy and Vasconia, since if a screw up does occur on land, then the penalty will be minimal when the French siege down a few unfortified provinces vs if they manage to actually take down a fort.

Also, has Austria secured a PU over Hungary yet? Did the war with Burgundy end with the Inheritance? Those things are pretty critical for Austria's ability to fend off the Turk while you and the Iberian union go for the French. If you delete the forts in mainland France like mentioned above, let Austria, Hungary and Naples deal with the Turk for as long as they can, and ship your men down to Vasconia (either your own land or Castile's portion), then you may be able to bait a couple of mountain attacks from the French (this is how I usually beat them when I play Castile). You could also use your fleet to blockade Normandy once the French do siege it. Although it'll mean a few % WS loss for you, it'll also mean WE for the French due to blockade, which is arguably worse in the long run since the fleet just has to sit there.

 

[heliostellar]

You can also try baiting France into guaranteeing someone. The AI seems really into that now. Get aggressive with Flanders (after breaking up the PU) or Provence. Set interest on their provinces.

 

[atwix]

consolidate power in Ireland, do war of the roses, get more infantry then france, attack scotland if france allied them (or an ally of france) and invade paris, annull treaties france with ottomans, come back after you took mission to force PU on them.

 

[Restless Native]

Vulcandrache said it best. If the ottoman army is in France their country is undefended. The ottomans are particularly prone to a naval invasion and as England can do it well. Go straight to the capital. Bring some artillery to speed up the siege and once that falls you could probably piece them out of the war. Then it's you v France with Spanish and Austrian support.