How to beat Rome as Athens?

[Flixbube]

Hi,

after struggling the whole weekend, to get a good athens run I am coming to you for help.

I have played athens for about ~20 times now, and i played rome and the antigonids before too. I would claim to know most mechanics by now, but its PDX so you never know
in my very first run(in 2.0 but a few weeks ago) i somehow lucked through all the hardships during the diadochi wars, expanded easily(fought antigonids, antipatrids, lagids and alkimachids in the process, allied rome and survived until the end of the game, owning most of greece, with rome all around me. ofc with a huge tech advantage vs everyone.

then a few days ago i want to play athens again, this time going for pentecontaetia and i want to free all the greeks from roman influence. this is where my ~20 tries start. i keep failing at various points in the game. usually when i become free, i am pretty much just sliding from one defensive war against either thrace, macedon or antigonids. while somehow winning or whitepeacing all these wars, i slowly grow in size and power. i usually manage to reach the size necessary to get legions, but i mostly survive on mercenaries.
all these greek kingdoms that fight me are bearable and usually dont use their full army to go after me. but the real deal is 50-60 years into every campaign, rome probably already owns epirus+macedon and i dont see any way to ever conquer those territories from them... they are obviously already much larger than me and i dont think i can outgrow them to fight them eventually.

so this is where im asking for help, do you guys have certain "must have" technologies for athens to survive and grow? good allies to recommend?(i usually go with epirus and whatever diadochi want me, sometimes sparta, pontos, bosporan kingdom, rome, really just anyone who's willing)

 

[Nostalgium]

The best option is to essentially switch overlords. Once you get your liberty, kiss up to Rome to deter the other Diadochi from declaring on you while you mass your power in Greece and beyond. Once you feel secure enough in your power, prepare for war and break the alliance. Preparations for war w. Rome I've found to consist mostly of figuring out how you can mostly ignore their armies, beat them at sea to hamper their mobility, and sack their important cities in Italy until they give up, so megaforts and a big fleet with raiding armies is the way to go, I'd say.

 

[dakapes]

There are some amazing Athens and Sparta starting strategies on @religiousphanatic videos.

I just mention pillaging some "easy" targets for cash and relying heavily on mercenaries ( the later got nerfed by merc cap but it can be done with the right technologies).

Athens , especially in Normal mode ( in higher difficulties it requires more micro managing in wars) , can have an awsome start.

The basic idea is there, there are some variations of course.

PS : against Rome it is all about navy. If you can match them , so you can counter pillage their cities , it is game over for them.

 

[Flixbube]

There are some amazing Athens and Sparta starting strategies on @religiousphanatic videos.

I just mention pillaging some "easy" targets for cash and relying heavily on mercenaries ( the later got nerfed by merc cap but it can be done with the right technologies).

Athens , especially in Normal mode ( in higher difficulties it requires more micro managing in wars) , can have an awsome start.

The basic idea is there, there are some variations of course.

PS : against Rome it is all about navy. If you can match them , so you can counter pillage their cities , it is game over for them.

how do i find the videos by @religiousphanatic ? searched his profile and put his name into yt search, but couldnt find anything...

 

[dakapes]

cofee cup in youtube, see the starting moves in Sparta run .

It is similar to Athens e.g pillage Egypt and attack Thrace.

 

[scriptkiddy]

Rush through the independence mission tree so that you’re independent before Macedon goes to war with Antigonids (60% senate’s approval is easily gained by assigning offices to the largest party and then giving them free hands which will boost the approval), get Megara (or whatever the name of that province is that you need to unlock the Restoration of Attica mission tree) from Antigonids while they’re busy with the other Diadochi, conquer/vassalise Epirus to prevent Roman advance, and then conquer the other Greek provinces needed for Pentecontaetia achievement. Usually Antigonids are going to be totally wrecked and will withdraw to their Cypriote holdings which you can get by vassalising and integrating them before 500. After owning Greece and Thrace you can say hello to the Romans before they become a serious threat.

 

[olivenkranz]

Rush through the independence mission tree so that you’re independent before Macedon goes to war with Antigonids (60% senate’s approval is easily gained by assigning offices to the largest party and then giving them free hands which will boost the approval), get Megara (or whatever the name of that province is that you need to unlock the Restoration of Attica mission tree) from Antigonids while they’re busy with the other Diadochi, conquer/vassalise Epirus to prevent Roman advance, and then conquer the other Greek provinces needed for Pentecontaetia achievement. Usually Antigonids are going to be totally wrecked and will withdraw to their Cypriote holdings which you can get by vassalising and integrating them before 500. After owning Greece and Thrace you can say hello to the Romans before they become a serious threat.

Interesting approach.
Mine was to take crete and make almost everyone into a feudatory once I reached the necessary size (I thinks its twenty territories) to make them feudatories.
Withe the 10 or so feudatories as minions you can take most on in the region. I have to admit that I got lucky and that amcedon got split into two and Antigonids too. Rome I beat with mercs and forts, owned only most of greece at the time. Didnt have to invade. Still have the save if interested (its ironman).

 

[scriptkiddy]

Interesting approach.
Mine was to take crete and make almost everyone into a feudatory once I reached the necessary size (I thinks its twenty territories) to make them feudatories.
Withe the 10 or so feudatories as minions you can take most on in the region. I have to admit that I got lucky and that amcedon got split into two and Antigonids too. Rome I beat with mercs and forts, owned only most of greece at the time. Didnt have to invade. Still have the save if interested (its ironman).

This is what I did when playing Antigonids, I turned all of Greece into Feudatories before Macedon attacked and then let my vassal swarm handle them while I take on Egypt. But it’s definitely also a good strategy for Athens because every Feudatory will cobtribute a minimum of 4 cohorts, you won’t get so many levies if annexing them.

 

[Tidster]

This post inspired me to give Athens a go. Early game, I found Crete to be the easiest place to start. Once you control Crete and integrate the Cretans, you can get some reasonably sized levies for your ruler’s region. Rhodes and the smaller independent states of Anatolia were easy to pick off next. From there I obsessively accumulated fuedetoires and client states. I went for techs to increase the number of potential relationships when I wasn’t snagging anything more urgent, so I could maximize my alliances and clients.

When I did take on Rome, I did so in smaller chunks. Timing was important... I’d wait for them to commit on other fronts before declaring war. The AI seems to struggle fighting on multiple fronts. I let the Feudatories, Clients, and Allies run wild and distract the AI while I shipped my troops in where they could quickly snag multiple provinces on the Italian peninsula... I’d shoot to get 30-40 warscore as quickly as possible before the AI could commit a full response and quickly settle for 2-3 provinces per war. They got a little easier after each chunk I took.

 

[Torugu]

This post inspired me to give Athens a go. Early game, I found Crete to be the easiest place to start. Once you control Crete and integrate the Cretans, you can get some reasonably sized levies for your ruler’s region. Rhodes and the smaller independent states of Anatolia were easy to pick off next. From there I obsessively accumulated fuedetoires and client states. I went for techs to increase the number of potential relationships when I wasn’t snagging anything more urgent, so I could maximize my alliances and clients.

When I did take on Rome, I did so in smaller chunks. Timing was important... I’d wait for them to commit on other fronts before declaring war. The AI seems to struggle fighting on multiple fronts. I let the Feudatories, Clients, and Allies run wild and distract the AI while I shipped my troops in where they could quickly snag multiple provinces on the Italian peninsula... I’d shoot to get 30-40 warscore as quickly as possible before the AI could commit a full response and quickly settle for 2-3 provinces per war. They got a little easier after each chunk I took.

Yeah, Crete is a great place to start for every Greek minor. Not only does it have a sizable population, but the entire island follows the same culture. So by just beating up the tiny, unprotected nations that start there and integrating Cretan culture you can get a levy large enough to play in the same league as the big boys.

 

[Tidster]

I might add that I wish I would have founded additional cities earlier in Attica and prioritized getting the grand theater earlier... A couple slave mill focused cities helps a lot with building up conquered provinces and hiring mercenaries to fill out your ranks. Since levy size is dependent on integrated culture, its helpful to move fresh slaves that land in your capitol to these mill cities for income while they assimilate.