How to achieve the blitzkrieg tactic?

[Nucleo94]

Hi community of Hoi3, i play to this game very glady, but i'm in trouble for military tactics. For example how run successfully for blitzkrieg tactic? How perform to encirclement the enemy without exposing the flanks? How adopt the tactics of scorched earth and counterattack the enemy as did the Red Army?
Thanks for your ansewers

 

[EmperorBatman999]

A lot of complicated things and I myself haven't mastered these myself.

To achieve a Blitzkrieg-like effect, have you considered placing "exploitation" units inside your lines? These unit hang back and do not engage in initial combat but instead wait for the enemy to withdraw and then pursue them deep into enemy territory. This should almost be a leap-frog effect of sorts. It also helps if you research the tech chain that reduces waiting times between attacks. It's under the Land Tab in Research but I forgot its name.

Also the best exploitation units tend to be very fast ones like Motorized Infantry, Cavalry, Light Armor, and Armored Cars. They might not have the best strength, but their speed is good for catching units whose organization was already broken by stronger units.

Encirclement is similar. Do not commit all your troops to attack but leave behind some to watch over the lines as you wrap around the enemy. Again exploitation units are good for gathering speed and covering terrain to keep the enemy closed off. Cause havoc in the enemy's backfield and isolate them from their other armies and territories, all the while pushing them from all sides.

 

[Didz]

I've been experimenting with this sort of rapid breakthrough and expliotation approach in my current Soviet Campaign, although the Soviets called it 'Deep Battle' rather than 'Blitzkrieg'.

As EB999 says above it helps to have fast mobile corps or armies uncommitted behind your lines waiting to expliot any gaps that appear. Its also important to plan the breakthrough point and route to avoid as many terrain obsticales as possible, so that your deep expliotation units don' get delayed. Finally, you need slower forces ready to follow up behind and keep the LOS open by blocking any attempt by the AI to close behind the expiotation divisions.

I think the most successful one to date was that of the my Soviet 4th Mechanised Army in Turkey. They pretty much left the Turkish Army standing and took out Ankara with hardly any opposition at all. see Operation Sirius below.
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198007960391/screenshots/

 

[yamato2cz]

go to youtube and google "marco hoi3" there you go, watch him, learn how to beat that ass.

 

[Nucleo94]

ok, thanks guys, i will try to follow your advices

 

[Kovax]

Don't use your armor to break through, use infantry for that. Save the armor for the exploitation and overruns AFTER the enemy is broken. If you've committed the armor to the initial attack, then it's stuck with an attack delay and can't overrun the retreaters. On occasion, I'll commit ONE fast unit to the initial combat, because if the fight drags on long enough, the attack delay may be almost entirely expired by the time the enemy breaks, and that fast unit will already have significant movement progress accumulated toward the advance, and an easy overrun. Most of the Armor/MOT will be waiting for the enemy to break, and will move out the moment that happens.

I don't attempt to move into the province directly behind the enemy, because they'll often fall back and get there first, and then I just end up driving them back and out of the trap. I go at least one or two provinces deeper, and then turn in. That means, when the enemy discovers the encirclement attempt, they will pull units off the front line, but they won't get in the way of my encirclement units. By the time they reach my new line behind them, I've already closed the pocket.

Meanwhile, my units along the original line launch spoiling attacks to pin them, particularly if they've already started moving and surrendered their entrenchment bonus. My circle can then move INWARD as my original line advances forward, and try to beat the retreaters to those provinces. If I do get there first (particularly with a fast LARM/AC division), then the voluntarily routed enemies are automatically destroyed when they reach the province which I now control. If not, then I've got forces both in front and behind to break them, with no avenue of retreat.

My MOT divisions are there to closely follow the fast Armor divisions in making the encirclement, and continue to hold the line of the circle after the Armor has moved on. I bring regular INF up to reinforce, as I can. That frees the armored corps to advance deeper or expand laterally and encircle the next group beside the first.

If you're relying on Armor to break the opponent, or leaving armor behind to hold the line (or even leaving MOT where you can easily bring up INF to replace it), it's being wasted.

 

[marxianTJ]

Properly pushing quickly behind an opponent depends on what you've got.

So you want to think of a few things:

1.) What are you going to use to break through initially? Like what Kovax has written above, if you have divisions or MP to spare (and especially if you've made some divisions especially apt at attacking via attachments) it's best to use those first so that they get hit with the attack delay and heaviest ORG/STR losses.

If you don't have the MP or the spare INF divisions you'll have to use armor to breakthrough - a case of not having enough MP would be as France - France typically cannot afford to use any division that isn't shielded with armor to attack or they'll quickly run out of manpower completely and that will be bad.

Of course there is the third case that you don't have armor at all - and so the question is relegated to INF divisions.

2.) What's the geography like? It's relatively easy to cut off divisions in certain terrain types due to the movement penalties they inflict and certain geographic situations (impassable INFRA, sea tiles).

For example one of the easiest spots to form a pocket that comes up in every game where Germany fights the USSR is in the Southern Baltic states of Lithuania and Latvia - it's VERY easy for an over aggressive Germany or for an unwary USSR to have a large number of divisions become trapped here because it's relatively easy to separate divisions against the Baltic sea.

In short you want to have a loose plan of where you're going to try to form your pocket.

3. Distribution of Forces.

Now that you've got your spots picked out for setting up the formation of pockets *everywhere* else needs only to have the very barest minimum of forces available. Typically between 1-3 INF divisions depending on your opponent and the terrain type they're sitting on. The reason a lot of players have trouble getting pockets to form effectively is because they want to spread everything they have out evenly. Blitzkrieg or the Soviet equivalent of Deep Operations, are not meant for defensive war at all, that's why your "line" defensive troops are such an afterthought - the bulk of your army should be committed to offensives in a few select areas.

A good example of such a force distribution is in the 1939 Scenario and Germany's set up vs. Poland. Mostly every province on the German side of the border only has a single division, whereas a few select tiles have piles and piles of troops ready to break into Poland and begin forming pockets of Poles.

Once you've achieved your breakthrough you shove new and fresh (and hopefully fast) units into the tiles you're about to occupy and set your "line" troops to attack - particularly on the flanks of the tiles you've just taken to keep the troops present there from being able to attack your forces once they enter the new tile(s).

From there you just keep feeding more and more troops through the gap and deeper and deeper into enemy territory, as your line troops move forward to force the opposition to either stand their ground (thus increasing the likelihood they'll end up trapped later) or immediately withdraw to avoid encirclement.

The reason speed is so important is because the AI will immediately sense its flanks are threatened and do 2 things: 1.) Send reinforcements to attack you in your new tile 2.) Withdraw nearby units to avoid their potential encirclement. So if your units are too slow you won't be able to overrun retreating units, and you will allow a lot of enemy troops to have the time to withdraw out of any potential encirclement, not to mention time to bring in reinforcements to stop you from advancing.

Because of #1 it's important not to throw huge piles of troops into a single tile until that counter-attack has been dealt with, or to break through in multiple tiles if possible to spread out the enemy's reserves to decrease the likelihood that they'll be able to stop you.

 

[Nucleo94]

thank you, you helping me a lot

 

[Nucleo94]

another question, playing with germany, a PanzerArmee what type and number of division must have?

 

[yamato2cz]

another question, playing with germany, a PanzerArmee what type and number of division must have?

per 1 panzer army- 15 ind divs 10 armor divs

 

[marxianTJ]

I like to keep my armor and my INF separate just so I can find them on the OOB more easily if I"m going to build armor lol.

I usually just pair up corps so for every 1 arm division, I'll have a faster division in its own corps.

You can make your divisions however you like but you only ever need 1 armored unit in a division f you're playing TFH - otherwise a second arm in the same division is wasted sadly.

 

[Kovax]

I prefer to add one Armored Corps per Army: 4 Infantry Corps and one Armored Corps. That Armored Corps typically consists of 2-3 Armor divisions and 2-3 Motorized divisions. Note that you really only need ONE Armor brigade in an Armor division, which provides the piercing and armor stats to the whole division. MOT or other fast supporting units provide the bulk firepower and defensiveness for a lot less IC expense.

If I'm making an encirclement, it's generally against an obstacle on one side, or between two different Armies. In the first case, I'll drive deep, then turn in against the coastline or neutral country, cutting off the enemy. In the second case, I'll use the armored corps from each of two adjacent armies to drive independent breaches through the enemy line around 3-6 provinces apart, and then meet up somewhere behind the enemy. One Corps is generally sufficient to create the encirclement, but I usually have to reinforce it with regular infantry to prevent the enemy from breaking the ring with desperate attacks from both inside and out. My infantry along the original line can often attack the counter-attackers and potential escapees within the ring, but the ring needs to be strong enough to withstand those combined attacks long enough for you to break the enemy units within. Armor is great for forcing the encirclement, but rather expensive for holding it, particularly if the enemy is equipped with AT brigades in most divisions.

My preferred combinations for mobile divisions are usually ARM+2xMOT+AC or SPART, and 2xMOT+SPART+AC. Armored Cars aren't the most powerful thing on the field, but they provide a substantial movement bonus to the entire Corps in some types of terrain, which can be critical for closing an encirclement or overrunning a broken unit, and they're fairly cheap for what they deliver. I may substitute an ENG brigade in place of one AC per Corps, for river crossings and attacks into bad terrain such as cities or dense woods, rather than waiting until conventional Infantry units (which also get one ENG brigade per Corps) get there. I'm a huge fan of ENG as a penalty reducer in key situations, but they're ONLY effective in certain terrain types (urban, forts, rivers, heavy woods), otherwise they're one of the weakest things you can add to a division (AT is about equal, EXCEPT against armor).

Of course, turning all of that over to AI control means that it will put your MTN troops in the open fields, send your armor to attack a mountain, and launch a fast attack to secure a key province using GAR, while your highly trained marines and paratroopers protect your cities from partisans.

 

[Didz]

I prefer to add one Armored Corps per Army: 4 Infantry Corps and one Armored Corps..

Thats interesting. I started off with some multi-role Corps like that, and then had a few multi-role armies with 3 x Rfle Corps + 1 Tank Corps. But I've moved on to the concept of Tank Armies and Line Armies simply because I found it simplified role definition and deployment decisions.

I found that mixing the roles either resulted in the Tanks dragging a sea anchor of slow moving infantry units behind them, or finding my infantry forced to defend open ground just so my tanks could manouvre.

 

[Kovax]

Contrary to your experience, I find that my tank Corps usually need the bulk of that infantry following up to consolidate gains and finish off surrounded units. If the armor Corps range too far ahead, they're in danger of being cut off and stranded out of supply.

Then again, most of my playing experience has been with smaller countries, so having an actual Tank Corps is already pretty drastic. Tank Armies? You mean you've got more than one army of ANY kind? Of course, if you're running the Soviets, you need that kind of mass concentration of force to compete with the higher German leadership and organization stats.

 

[Didz]

Then again, most of my playing experience has been with smaller countries, so having an actual Tank Corps is already pretty drastic. Tank Armies? You mean you've got more than one army of ANY kind? Of course, if you're running the Soviets, you need that kind of mass concentration of force to compete with the higher German leadership and organization stats.

Yeah! Its probably a matter of scale. I'm using the corps as the basic unit of manouvre, so my tank and mechnaised corps are making the breakthrough and then infantry corps are moving into the gap behind them to keep it open and defend the line of supply. Whereas you seem to be working at divisional level, which makes sense for smaller countries.

So, my 'Deep Battle' plans tend to be aimed at penetrations of hundred's of miles to take strategic objectives like capitals and VP's, whereas you seem to be making limited penetrations to encircle enemy units. Obviously a mixed corps with foot slogging infantry isn't suitable for deep penetrations as the infantry can't keep up.

 

[Kovax]

Yeah! Its probably a matter of scale. I'm using the corps as the basic unit of manouvre, so my tank and mechnaised corps are making the breakthrough and then infantry corps are moving into the gap behind them to keep it open and defend the line of supply. Whereas you seem to be working at divisional level, which makes sense for smaller countries.

So, my 'Deep Battle' plans tend to be aimed at penetrations of hundred's of miles to take strategic objectives like capitals and VP's, whereas you seem to be making limited penetrations to encircle enemy units. Obviosly a mixed corps with foot slogging infantry isn't suitable for deep penetrations as the infantry can't keep up.

Pretty much sums up the situation (movement by Corps versus Division), although I still operate mostly at a divisional level if I play GER, and it tends to make rather short work of whatever the French or Soviets throw in front of it. I'd rather attack with one division from each of three directions than three from one direction, so even if I do stack up a Corps in a single province, they're typically attacking in different directions to support attacks on other provinces. I don't need "deep penetration" with a few Corps if I can steadily remove whatever's in front of me and "go deep" with my entire Theater at the slow walking pace of my infantry. Then again, running the Soviets, you simply have too many units to handle individually, and not enough punch with any single division, so you're almost forced to run them as Corps. It all comes down to what country you're playing and personal preference.

I don't typically run foot infantry and armor in the same Corps, but regularly mix Armor and Motorized units. That fast Corps will normally operate directly with at least one more Corps of conventional infantry, first to create and secure the initial breakthrough, then to reinforce and consolidate whatever gains the armored Corps manages to make. Meanwhile, the regular "line" army holds the spaces between the spearheads, and either pins enemy units to prevent their interference with my armored and motorized units, or follows the enemy when they try to escape and assists in their demise once escape has been cut off. Once the enemy can't even maintain a coherent line, THEN it's time to turn the exploitation units loose to grab VPs. I generally don't win quickly, but I do tend to win decisively and fairly economically.

Quite simply, infantry is cheap and fairly effective, so I use infantry for the bulk of the fighting, with a sprinkling specialist units sent to where they're needed. Note that AT is a "specialist" unit, and is one of the weakest things you can put in a division against another infantry division; the AI armies are often pushovers because they spend a brigade slot in almost every division for it. Armor is also a "specialist" unit, and I don't use it as "tougher infantry".

ARM and MOT are mainly maneuver elements in my games, rather than building large numbers at a high cost, paying the high reinforcement cost after combat (especially if the enemy has AT in almost every division, which the Soviets typically do), and then having them tied down as static elements while they're fighting. In most games as a minor country, manpower is no more limited than IC, and with GER I generally have well over 1000 manpower in reserve (and increasing) at the time the Soviets fall, so manpower is rarely the most critical element for me.

 

[JerkyJerry]

Properly pushing quickly behind an opponent depends on what you've got.

Are we not doing phrasing any longer?

 

[EllisDee]

The way i do it's more like what i think would be "schwerpunkt" rather than blitz.

I leave an inf division bordering the enemy, and pile up light tanks in one spot (about 4-5). The AI starts shifting to counter that, soyour weak defence is perfectly fine. Then smash through with the heaviest, slowest armour, and pour through the gap they've made. Then you surround and conquer.

If you're fighting a superior enemy like Germany, you obviously need to leave a stronger garrison. The other thing is that you need to push through to a natural defence, like a river, because they can break out like monsters otherwise. Especially the case if you've just lumped a load of infantry through the gap you've made, and they suddenly attack, because the stacking penalty and the combat width will count against you completely.

 

[EmperorBatman999]

Perhaps I made the mistake putting foot-slogging infantry into divisions with Armor. May need to go back and upgrade them then.

Of course I then just sloppily subscribed to the idea of throwing divisions into corps based on how many divisions a corps needs, rather than specializing. Actually, the only specialization I actually did was put all my Mountaineers into two separate corps.

 

[marxianTJ]

I mostly just keep them separate so I can keep track of them more easily - even in nations that only have a little armor (say Italy) - because tanks are so expensive I want them being used as often, and as efficiently, as possible and fiddling with them in the side bar is easiest for me.

For a big fight like the USSR vs Germany having foot infantry around won't hurt you *later* once you've destroyed large portions of the Red (or German) army - because your supply network will be so stretched (in either case) that having lots and lots of MOT/ARM units in a small area will likely cause supply problems.

For Germany at least until Moscow is captured (and then after some time later the supply problems will return) and for the USSR until some foreign capitals are captured.