How the hell does people farm out super generals from spain?

[Cooling Machine]

^How to make this?
Seems like the new meta is to farm out uber generals and put them on heavy tanks, right click on enemy and win.People farm out 7-8 lvl generals with all the good traits(panzer leader,1-2 terrain,engineer,trickster) from spain.Tried to get similarly good generals but after i get the second trait their xp toward new traits slows down, and i can barely get 1-2 extra level before SCW is over.Getting the right conditions for trickster is also hard and i dont know how people farm that to their general.

So how to reliably farm out super generals from spain?

 

[el nora]

after i get the second trait their xp toward new traits slows down

This is the key part of the strategy. Dont pick up the traits until youre done grinding. Just grind up to 95-99% of the way toward the traits you want and deliberately stop gaining any xp toward that trait. Continue doing that until all the traits you want to grind are close to completion, and then rush through them.

Integral to this is not using frontlines (grinds organizer), not using 40% or more tanks (grinds panzer leader), and not using 80% or more infantry (grinds infantry leader). Those traits are basically gimmes, and just normal fighting will level them up, so if you can avoid gaining xp toward them in spain, you will have an easier time of grinding the more important traits.

Although, to be fair to panzer leader, that trait does give your general +2 weight towards leveling up attack. Which is a huge bonus. So it's not the worst trait to grind out early if you do choose to do so. However, as above, doing so reduces all your other trait xp gain. So it's swings and roundabouts.

 

[Kazakk]

Uh, I don't even know how to grind for specific traits. Interesting. I've spent so many hundred hours trying to min-max and I've never thought of this.

 

[Cooling Machine]

This is the key part of the strategy. Dont pick up the traits until youre done grinding. Just grind up to 95-99% of the way toward the traits you want and deliberately stop gaining any xp toward that trait. Continue doing that until all the traits you want to grind are close to completion, and then rush through them.

Integral to this is not using frontlines (grinds organizer), not using 40% or more tanks (grinds panzer leader), and not using 80% or more infantry (grinds infantry leader). Those traits are basically gimmes, and just normal fighting will level them up, so if you can avoid gaining xp toward them in spain, you will have an easier time of grinding the more important traits.

Although, to be fair to panzer leader, that trait does give your general +2 weight towards leveling up attack. Which is a huge bonus. So it's not the worst trait to grind out early if you do choose to do so. However, as above, doing so reduces all your other trait xp gain. So it's swings and roundabouts.

The guy farmed out Guderian, who starts with panzer leader and trickster,doesnt seem efficient.Also even if they hold back their traits that doesnt explain how they get 3-5 levels from spain.
Getting trickster(not for Guderian obviously,he starts with it) is a pain because the battlefield conditions for it are rarer and dont last long, because the multiple combat penalty,so you will likely get other traits before trickster which further slows down the already slow progress towards trickster.

How does division width affect xp gain?Is 40w better or same as 20w for xp gain?

I kinda know the theory, but when i try to farm out super generals i fail every single time.

 

[FLUX2226]

The slowed down trait XP gain because of already gained traits is something I highly dislike, it punishes people who don't know about it (who are plenty because HoI4 hardly gives you any in-depth information across all parts of the game) and is just begging to be exploited by those who do know about it.

 

[FLUX2226]

Integral to this is not using frontlines (grinds organizer), not using 40% or more tanks (grinds panzer leader), and not using 80% or more infantry (grinds infantry leader). Those traits are basically gimmes, and just normal fighting will level them up, so if you can avoid gaining xp toward them in spain, you will have an easier time of grinding the more important traits.

I tried to level a panzer commander in Spain as Germany but he quickly got the infantry trait because Spanish infantry will always fill in the gaps in your battles so you grind infantry leader even if you only use tank divisions yourself. How do you deal with that?
Happens to me on other occasions, too, like when I try to level a cavalry commander who fights alongside infantry armies. Eventually he'll become an infantry leader.

 

[el nora]

The guy farmed out Guderian, who starts with panzer leader and trickster,doesnt seem efficient.Also even if they hold back their traits that doesnt explain how they get 3-5 levels from spain.
Getting trickster(not for Guderian obviously,he starts with it) is a pain because the battlefield conditions for it are rarer and dont last long, because the multiple combat penalty,so you will likely get other traits before trickster which further slows down the already slow progress towards trickster.

How does division width affect xp gain?Is 40w better or same as 20w for xp gain?

I kinda know the theory, but when i try to farm out super generals i fail every single time.

The image linked in the OP is from a modded game. Who knows what was changed.

Grinding Guderian isn't efficient. It isn't the meta. The generals to grind for Germany are Dietrich and Kesselring. Reckless isn't good for a general, because of the increased wounded chance, but getting wounded doesn't matter so much for a field marshal. The extra attack pips from reckless and brilliant strategist and armor officer make Dietrich the leader with the highest attack skill weight of all German generals, so he's your best bet for field marshal. Kesselring also has pretty high attack pip weight, but more importantly has cautious to reduce his chance of getting wounded.

Trickster is a pain. Which is why it should be the first you grind out. It's much easier to do with a player Spain setting up a static front line for you to be able to attack several provinces from multiple flanks. Preferably in the northeast, to be able to grind on forests and hills to the north of Barcelona, and finally to grind on the city itself when you're close to whichever other terrain traits you want. By grinding on multiple terrain types, you delay gaining enough xp for any of them to overcome trickster xp. Once you have ~495/500 xp toward trickster, you stop attacking from multiple flanks. And remember to keep your Spain from attacking into your tiles as well.

The way to get three levels in Spain is to send as many volunteers as you can, in Natl. Spain that should be 7. They should have as many battalions as possible, because that also affects xp gain. They should also have relatively high attack, preferably 4x the Rep. Spanish divisions' attacks. So the optimal division to send is 20-0 with support arty and engineers. Or 17-2, one less battalion but more attacks. Stop attacking every couple days, and restart the battle because xp gain is reduced by the ongoing length of the battle up to 30 days.

 

[el nora]

I tried to level a panzer commander in Spain as Germany but he quickly got the infantry trait because Spanish infantry will always fill in the gaps in your battles so you grind infantry leader even if you only use tank divisions yourself. How do you deal with that?
Happens to me on other occasions, too, like when I try to level a cavalry commander who fights alongside infantry armies. Eventually he'll become an infantry leader.

This occurs because they have a higher level general than you. The Spanish general's high level causes him to take priority in leading the battle, and he gains infantry leader because he's commanding pure infantry divisions. Now, since your divisions are also in that same battle, they give their own general 75% of the normal expected xp that would gained by the other general. So your general gets infantry leader xp even though he shouldn't. You deal with it by moving somewhere else, where that general isn't commanding, or by grinding a higher level general.

Cavalry divisions count as infantry divisions. So grinding cavalry leader without also equally grinding infantry leader must be done with between 40% to 80% cavalry divisions and no infantry. But since cav count as inf, their respective traits combine on cavalry. So if you're grinding a cav general, you actually do want to have infantry leader on him.

 

[FLUX2226]

Cavalry divisions count as infantry divisions. So grinding cavalry leader without also equally grinding infantry leader must be done with between 40% to 80% cavalry divisions and no infantry. But since cav count as inf, their respective traits combine on cavalry. So if you're grinding a cav general, you actually do want to have infantry leader on him.

Off-topic, but cavalry still doesn't benefit from doctrine bonuses for infantry even tho' they count as infantry for generals, right? Since there are a few doctrine techs that list infantry and cavalry separately.

 

[el nora]

Off-topic, but cavalry still doesn't benefit from doctrine bonuses for infantry even tho' they count as infantry for generals, right? Since there are a few doctrine techs that list infantry and cavalry separately.

Yes, while a cavalry division may be considered an infantry division for the purposes of divisional modifiers, it is not so for the purposes of battalion modifiers.

 

[DGuller]

Lower combat width tends to aid grinding as well, probably because it makes more of your divisions fight at the same time. I think the general xp gain is scaling with the number of divisions that are fighting under him.

 

[el nora]

Lower combat width tends to aid grinding as well, probably because it makes more of your divisions fight at the same time. I think the general xp gain is scaling with the number of divisions that are fighting under him.

But that's not relevant in Spain because the number of divisions you may send is limited. Given that you can only send a certain number of divisions, you want them to be as large as possible to maximize xp gain.

Edit: I feel like expanding more on this point. For a set number of battalions, splitting them up among more divisions does generate more xp, up to a point, because both numbers of divisions and numbers of battalions are relevant towards this calculation. However, it is not a priori worth it to have more, smaller, divisions. Especially because of the caveats I mentioned, at 8 battalions per division or below, or at 24 divisions or more (even with the applicable trait), the general will begin to gain significantly reduced xp. However you do end up grinding, the typical ways it is done is to use as many larger divisions as possible rather than use smaller ones. Even if you're grinding a general with a full army group, having fewer battalions per division is only worthwhile if you are manpower capped.

 

[el nora]

You can also allow the AI to do all the work for you for free. Such as in China, you can just sit on their four urban ports and the two mountains protecting the Ningbo port. The AI can and will grind trickster and adaptable for you with no effort of your own expended. @blahmaster6k sent me this a few days back when I mentioned it:

 

[Gyrvendal]

Can someone tell me why grinding the trickster trait is even important? Is it for the 10% move speed from Improvement Expert??

 

[Simon_9732495]

Can someone tell me why grinding the trickster trait is even important? Is it for the 10% move speed from Improvement Expert??

I think it's the River Crossing Bonus from "Makeshift bridges" from "Improvisation Expert".
When attacking the Soviets you'll face some different river crossings.

 

[Vlad123]

Only I understood that you have to do micromangment by changing the templates of the troops every X time?

 

[eastcoastceojam]

You can also allow the AI to do all the work for you for free. Such as in China, you can just sit on their four urban ports and the two mountains protecting the Ningbo port. The AI can and will grind trickster and adaptable for you with no effort of your own expended.

Very slick advice- thanks for sharing!

 

[el nora]

Can someone tell me why grinding the trickster trait is even important? Is it for the 10% move speed from Improvement Expert??

I think it's the River Crossing Bonus from "Makeshift bridges" from "Improvisation Expert".
When attacking the Soviets you'll face some different river crossings.

Well, the 10% movement speed is also nice. But yes, the big deal is makeshift bridges. Thats why its one of the more desired grindable traits. Thats also why getting wounded is one of the worst things to happen to your general, and the reason to pick cautious over reckless even with the attack pip disparity between them. Getting wounded a second before you would have hit the button for makeshift bridges may or may not have caused me to lose a Barb that was otherwise going swimmingly.

Only I understood that you have to do micromangment by changing the templates of the troops every X time?

No need to change troop templates. Unless you sent bad templates over to spain in the first place, for lack of xp to send better, and are in the process of improving them.

So long as you send between 20-40% tanks (2/7), you should gain neither infantry leader nor panzer leader xp. If you do want to grind that xp, then yes you should send over 40% (3/7) tanks, and when you are close to getting panzer leader, convert a single division back over to your infantry template. But that should be all the conversion between templates that you need to do.

Very slick advice- thanks for sharing!

My pleasure. I love the fact that Japan can easily grind out the best generals in the game despite their generals being subpar traits-wise.

 

[blahmaster6k]

Especially because of the caveats I mentioned, at 8 battalions per division or below, or at 24 divisions or more (even with the applicable trait), the general will begin to gain significantly reduced xp.

You might want to clarify that it's less than eight and greater than 24 that lead to reduced experience, eight and 24 themselves are both just fine (also, obligatory RIP Kobe). Otherwise, great job in this thread.

In case it would be helpful for those looking for advice, here's a guide I wrote a while ago on how I grind generals. It's basically the same as @el nora 's comments in his thread but more detailed, and my strategy was probably inspired by his reddit posts at some point before I internalized them.