How strong should I be to fight a fallen empire?

[LordMagus]

A mostly Cruiser fleet of about 80K fleet strength (using L Kinetics and M Plasma) is good enough to do the job.

And it's important to keep in mind that in equivalent fleet cap, a corvette/destroyer/cruiser fleet may only be listed at 40k while a mono cruiser fleet is considered 60k fleet strength.
Before anyone says 'but why use 80k cruisers when i can use 60k of other ships?' because fleets can really be equivalent but the game thinks they're not.

 

[Meneliki]

Currently I'm at around 50k fleet power, and researching enigmatic technologies. I have over 1,000 fleet capacity (FEs are listed as Inferior in that area) and have the economy to build up to it within a few decades.

In addition, would corvette swarms work best? The idea of a Titan Laser cracking my battleships open in one shot terrifies me, and considering my proximity to 2 FEs I was wondering if battleships should be foregone in favor of smaller vessels.

I was also considering the utility of building border fortresses and building up my army to defend my planets.

EDIT: To breakdown my question more specifically:
1. At what fleet power should I be at?
2. What ship and weapon types are best suited for fighting FEs?
3. Are more armies and defense stations worthwhile precautions, or should I put all my resources into fleet building?
4. Are there any technologies that one would consider essential to FE combat? I'm working on Enigmatic tech but there might be something I'm missing. What's the Genewarrio tech?

In my personal experience:

I find that Fallen Empires usually have a combined fleet strength of around 100k, split up between 4-5 stacks. When they "Awaken", that doubles.

As for ship design, I've taken them out with both a heavy laser focused fleet as well as a heavy kinetic focus. You can sprinkle in disruptors if you like. But do try to make sure you have point defense, and lots of shields.. the FE's are fond of strike craft and tachyon lances.

I wouldn't invest too heavily into defense stations.. because unless something's changed that I'm not aware of, they're not terribly strong. As for armies, unless running "Very Strong" on your native species, you may want to look to higher tech soldiers to fight them with on the ground. Can't really go wrong with gene warriors if you have them. If you don't, just make more. There doesn't seem to be a limit to how many troops can land on a planet, so if his troops are better, just overwhelm him with numbers.

GL!

 

[klingonadmiral]

I find that Fallen Empires usually have a combined fleet strength of around 100k, split up between 4-5 stacks.

That depends on the difficulty setting (and maybe galaxy size).

FEs on a 1000 star map on normal diffioculty have 1-3 (but in most cases 2) stacks each at about 30k fleet power. Additionally, in rare cases they can also have a titan at 15k fleetpower.

 

[Naelar]

Greatly varies on the FE and your available weaponry. I like to make a deathbloom trap of Forts loaded with kinetic artillery and load up with about 40k fleet power, consisting of Destroyers with kinetic artillery and flak, two cruiser types, one adorned with neutron torpedos and disruptors and the other cruisers loaded with kinetic artillery and flak batteries. My battleship use is actually very little, since they have high numerical power but are rather garbage until you're able to house 15 in a fleet at once accompanied with other ships that directly support their purpose and/or draw attention from them.

If deathbloom isn't in your available arsenal to do, cruisers with aggressive AI is highly advised, typically loaded with disruptors and plasma while backed up with numerous destroyers that have kinetic artillery, but most of the focus on high aggression, save for if the FE is a xenophobe, then the focus would be on the backline whereas your frontline cruisers are meant to soak up damage, utilizing mostly flak batteries and Disruptors, keeping the shields off while backline artillery hammers them.

Military power isn't relevant, as it's deceptive to your purpose and your utilization of your tools. Also, bear in mind the FE typically has a fleet of twenty Battlecruisers and twenty escorts. Base your fighting around striking targets that are all battleship+ in stats, but not as numerous as what you are at with the fleet power. If you have enigmatic tech, you can most certainly stand up to the FE's with a plethora of tactics.

 

[YagabodooN]

I have found that a DD and BB heavy fleet with plasma, kinetics and flak guns can usually take on a fallen empire fleet of equivalent size with acceptable losses.

 

[LordMagus]

fleet of equivalent size

I'll assume you mean estimated fleet strength, which can be misleading.

with acceptable losses.

Acceptable losses differs from person to person.
For instance, I find 20% losses in exchange for total annihilation of the enemy as an acceptable loss.

 

[TestosteroneLol]

In my last game I as a fanatically xenophile-militarist empire I was neighboured by a fanatic xenophobe FE. When they tried to humiliate me I declined and it turned out they had a 100k fleet. I was able to defeat it (with massive losses) with my fleet of around 60k in a single huge battle in an almost empty system. It's important to not battle them in their home system as their military stations have massive long-range firepower and can really augment their fleets.

 

[YagabodooN]

I'll assume you mean estimated fleet strength, which can be misleading.

I mean the same displayed fleet power, not diplomacy screen estimation.

'acceptable' can vary greatly depending on game specific circumstances but in an all out no gimmicks battle with no forts or unusual fleet splitting 65% -70% survival rate is usually ok.
I recommended that setup because it seems most reliable from my experience.

 

[LordMagus]

I mean the same displayed fleet power, not diplomacy screen estimation.

'acceptable' can vary greatly depending on game specific circumstances but in an all out no gimmicks battle with no forts or unusual fleet splitting 65% -70% survival rate is usually ok.
I recommended that setup because it seems most reliable from my experience.

I find that with a different fleet composition you can defeat them with less than equal fleet power. An all cruiser fleet armed with 2 kinetic artillery and 2 plasma cannons, with 5 medium shields at least against the Keepers can win the fleet battle with about 20% losses.

 

[kirell]

I actually tend to attack a FE long before i am able to actually win the war, e.g. with a 40k fleet size, and try to make peace after some battles (usually loosing a planet or two). That way, they will not awaken and the tech they give me (from researching shipwrecks) makes the "real" war so much easier (also dealing with other empires potentially awakening)...

 

[melkor88]

I never fight them until I have 100k fleet power. And then start pumping out more ready to replace all those loses you can expect to take.

 

[Robozhentar]

I find that with a different fleet composition you can defeat them with less than equal fleet power. An all cruiser fleet armed with 2 kinetic artillery and 2 plasma cannons, with 5 medium shields at least against the Keepers can win the fleet battle with about 20% losses.

In my current game I put 120k fleet power of 1KA 4M plasma cruisers against a 115k Keepers fleet. Caught them at map edge. I lost 6 cruisers out of 200ish, while destroying their entire fleet.

I loaded up a previous save and tested that same fleet except bringing the fight to them (so not facing not only their fleet but 4 defense platforms and 4 tachyon lance spaceports) and was still able to triumph, although at a cost of over a third of my fleet.

 

[The Founder]

In my current game I put 120k fleet power of 1KA 4M plasma cruisers against a 115k Keepers fleet. Caught them at map edge. I lost 6 cruisers out of 200ish, while destroying their entire fleet.

I loaded up a previous save and tested that same fleet except bringing the fight to them (so not facing not only their fleet but 4 defense platforms and 4 tachyon lance spaceports) and was still able to triumph, although at a cost of over a third of my fleet.

That most likely works because Cruisers (like Corvettes) go close in and then start circling the enemy. Wich disrupts the use of the XL Weapon slots entirely.
That will be fixed with 1.5:

* Weapon windup does not get cancelled when losing target during windup (should fix XL weapons not being able to fire due to moving targets)

While that also means Corvettes will be fired upon more, they still have thier high dodge to counter most XL weapons.
We have to see if that makes corvette Swarms less suiteable to fight most FE fleets. After all they are mostly "outlasting" the enemy, rather then bringing the right type and amount of firepower.

 

[LordMagus]

* Weapon windup does not get cancelled when losing target during windup (should fix XL weapons not being able to fire due to moving targets)

Thank the maker. I remember posting a bug report about at the very least a visual glitch where the battleships just kept winding up their tachyon lances and not firing.