How should the Orthodox get piety?

[grumbold]

Piety is the only currency that drops badboy, so every ruler needs some if they plan to do more than polish the seat of their throne. With each new ruler starting at 0 it doesn't matter how many bishoprics have already been established in the country, each ruler needs more.

Orthodox seem to get nothing from fighting against the heathen. While I can understand it not being as important to them as the Catholics, wouldn't the Orthodox church applaud their efforts to some extent?

 

[unmerged(14031)]

balance out by the fact that they dont lose any piety by not fighting which I think will get harder with patches especially against the turks and fatamids.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

balance out by the fact that they dont lose any piety by not fighting which I think will get harder with patches especially against the turks and fatamids.

Try playing Byzantium and say that again.... To take a not entirely hypothetical situation....

The difficulty in gaining piety makes the Regal Supremacy random moneylenders/merchant houses/&etc events (-25 piety apiece) real killers as they tend to hit in waves as the prerequisite tech spreads, assuming you have a few demesne provinces - which is not unlikely.

The agony of gaining BB from dowing muslims [okay, I am afraid the hypothetical attacks counted as sneak attacks ], then finally gaining piety by appointing bishops (one of the few options open for the orthodox) - only to see the piety wiped out by a wave of usury events is indescribable.

250 piety gone in half a year. WAAAAH.

Pretty soon all your vassals are becoming disloyal and there is no end in sight to your BB. :rofl:

Seing Byzantium fall apart because of succesful wars against the infidel coupled with usury is rather silly.

(Well, one could, of course, switch to Monastic Supremacy or Ecclesical Balance just like everybody else, but then it is not really Byzantium, is it? )

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... Even if the hypothetical player above got what he deserved, -25 piety per usury event is an awful lot, as it is nearly impossible to prevent them and as it is incredibly hard to gain piety as Orthodox. I have taken to halt whatever is being produced and giving orders to build the relevant building whenever the prerequisite tech appears in a province, as the piety hit is smaller when you build it yourself. It is a race against time.

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The most abusable way to gain piety as Orthodox (and it is an awful lot of work and not guaranteed success) is to appoint a 1-province bishopric with a small army in a poor province next to the muslims and hope that the muslims conquer it returning the theologically trained ruler to your court, allowing you to reconquer the province and create a new the bishopric.

 

[John Poole]

I thought they got Piety from destroying Icons? Oh wait that was the 8th century.

I wish there was a Patriarch and that the Orthodox Church was more properly represented. I think since there is no Patriarch they should have had the Orthodox Church under the control of the Orthodox Byzantine Emperor or the mightiest Orthodox state if there is no Empire. But it is probably too late for that . Getting more land for Orthodoxy from Heretics, Infidels and Pagans of all stripes should definitly give you piety points. As far as I know the Orthodox did a little Missionary work of their own among the pagan slavs

It would be nice if you could get Piety points for putting a Catholic/Orthodox on the thrones of the other three Patriarchies presently under Muslim control.

 

[grumbold]

It was getting a grandson onto the throne of Byzantium by accident (not the one in direct line of descent so Byzantium and Russia did not unify) that really made me think about it. With Russia I now have enough muscle to grab more Turk lands and install bishops pretty much at need but that simply isn't going to be the case as a weaker Count or Duke. I'm also assuming that in future patches conquest is going to get harder for everyone so even the strong countries will find piety harder to come by.

 

[unmerged(6838)]

Once again, Orthos seem to get the shaft...

 

[unmerged(2833)]

I thought they got Piety from destroying Icons? Oh wait that was the 8th century.

I wish there was a Patriarch and that the Orthodox Church was more properly represented. I think since there is no Patriarch they should have had the Orthodox Church under the control of the Orthodox Byzantine Emperor or the mightiest Orthodox state if there is no Empire. But it is probably too late for that . Getting more land for Orthodoxy from Heretics, Infidels and Pagans of all stripes should definitly give you piety points. As far as I know the Orthodox did a little Missionary work of their own among the pagan slavs

Actually, Orthodoxy did a lot, but before the game started. Not that there were much pagans left when the game starts (balt, plus few Slavs in baltic coast-apart from steppes)

 

[unmerged(6838)]

Maybe if there was a way to install Patriarchs or Metropolitans and so gain piety, once your prestige is enough to avoid the influence of the Patriarch of Constantinople....

Or if the Muslims capture Constantinople, Orthos get a bonus in piety for freeing it from them.

 

[unmerged(26514)]

or a piety/month from "churches" for orthos.

 

[lucaluca]

Once again, Orthos seem to get the shaft...

Sorry for my poor english, what is shaft? Not well represented?
However I think that the byzantine patriach didn't have any power outside byzantine empire, remember that byzantine church is autocephala, it means every contry has its own autonomous church, the role of the Ecumenical Patriarch was (maybe a bit later) merely symbolic.

 

[Duuk]

Piety/month from Bishoprics/etc under your control would be better. Otherwise creating a Bishopric is a long-term loss for your Dynasty. A short-term, 1 Ruler gain of 200 or so piety in exchange for losing dynastic control over an entire county for the remainder of the game.

A losing choice.

 

[InnocentIII]

Well, it seems to me that the proper fix is not to have a silly number of "random" events over a short time. -250 in six months means ten random events...

Otherwise, Ortho not losing piety monthly for not crusading makes smaller Ortho easier to play than smaller Catholic (since all Catholic are expected to Crusade and smaller ones can't do much). Making the odd Bishopric should work so long as random negative piety events aren't constant.

 

[Culise]

Sorry for my poor english, what is shaft? Not well represented?

Ah...something "getting the shaft" or "getting shafted" refers usually to getting the short end of the stick or, colloquially, screwed.

Regarding Orthodox bishoprics, who is in charge of adding new bishops? I keep on getting Catholic bishops in my Novgorod game, but they wouldn't have put the Pope in charge of the Orthodoxy, would they?

 

[Varyar]

The most abusable way to gain piety as Orthodox (and it is an awful lot of work and not guaranteed success) is to appoint a 1-province bishopric with a small army in a poor province next to the muslims and hope that the muslims conquer it returning the theologically trained ruler to your court, allowing you to reconquer the province and create a new the bishopric.

Why not simply create a bishopric, revoke the bishop's title and recreate the bishopric? Works fine for me

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Why not simply create a bishopric, revoke the bishop's title and recreate the bishopric? Works fine for me

A question of loyalty...

 

[Grosshaus]

I don't quite understand the original meaning of this thread as it's waaaaay easier for Orthos to get piety since the rules are the same for getting it, but Orthos don't get the crusade penalty. Playing a Russian duchy you end up with 2000+ piety without breaking sweat. I agree there being a problem with piety, but mainly by it being too hard to get as a Catholic compared to Orthos.

By actually getting the piety promised in the manual by building churces etc., both when built and also periodically, seems like the way it should be fixed so conquest would not be that important. It's not like the king of Norway had problems with the church although he had no Pagans or Muslims to fight.

 

[Endre Fodstad]

On a side not, Mr. Ebbesen, when will we see your much-awaited "Conquering all of europe as the Tribe of the Western Sames" AAR?

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

On a side not, Mr. Ebbesen, when will we see your much-awaited "Conquering all of europe as the Tribe of the Western Sames" AAR?

Hey, I have only had the game since Friday, and have spent my playing time since then divided between Catholic Denmark and Orthodox Byzantium.

If you see any AAR from me soon, it will probably be a silly Byzantium 1.01 AAR showing how any amount of piety can be wiped out by the usury event-series in short order. (Connected to the ability to have a large demesne, of course. When 10-20 provinces are hit by moneylenders within a year or two after you get the right tech, the shit hits the fan )

 

[Endre Fodstad]

If you see any AAR from me soon, it will probably be a silly Byzantium 1.01 AAR showing how any amount of piety can be wiped out by the usury event-series in short order. (Connected to the ability to have a large demesne, of course. When 10-20 provinces are hit by moneylenders within a year or two after you get the right tech, the shit hits the fan )

Tell me about it; I've been playing since before it officially was released; go Betafon and their somewhat liberal understanding of release dates....
Have you ever seen the Crusader Collapse? I.e. when a catholic AI power declares war on, say, the Fatimids or Ayyubis and does a general mobilization? And moves perhaps three units to the middle east, who get torn to pieces, whereupon the entire vassal army just stands around looking stupid until the entire kingdom collapses? Fun in the sun.

 

[Grisold]

Regarding Orthodox bishoprics, who is in charge of adding new bishops? I keep on getting Catholic bishops in my Novgorod game, but they wouldn't have put the Pope in charge of the Orthodoxy, would they?

Same problem here. I've reported it in the bug subforum, but feel free to add your observations in this thread
I think this deserves to be noticed and corrected ...