How popular is Italy?

[Harin]

Just play mods like Total War, BICE or Hearts of Oak.
They have awesome focus trees for Italy.

I agree. After seeing you mention these three mods in another thread, I have played all three. My current game happens to be Italy in Hearts of Oak. I have taken Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and am pressing south to help relieve Ethiopia, when the Americans launched Operation Torch on me. I am having a great time. I am not steamrolling through Africa, like in vanilla. I have a real fight on my hands.

 

[Simone87]

Italy is my favorite major, I'd like to see her reworked, with a focus tree with a level of detail and depth typical of the new trees from MtG onwards (I can't wait to play a monarchic Italy, fighting alongside the Allies against the Reich) and maybe with one or two of the changes I proposed in this thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/some-suggestions-for-italy-with-some-updates.1390804/

 

[kettyo]

Italy is my favorite major, I'd like to see her reworked, with a focus tree with a level of detail and depth typical of the new trees from MtG onwards (I can't wait to play a monarchic Italy, fighting alongside the Allies against the Reich) and maybe with one or two of the changes I proposed in this thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/some-suggestions-for-italy-with-some-updates.1390804/

It would be good from a balance standpoint that if Italy goes with the Allies, Germany goes to full alliance with the Soviets i think.

 

[Simone87]

It would be good from a balance standpoint that if Italy goes with the Allies, Germany goes to full alliance with the Soviets i think.

It would be my dream

 

[justtxyank]

It would be good from a balance standpoint that if Italy goes with the Allies, Germany goes to full alliance with the Soviets i think.

there’s just no scenario where Hitler formed a true long lasting alliance with the Soviets.

 

[justtxyank]

Italy is my favorite major, I'd like to see her reworked, with a focus tree with a level of detail and depth typical of the new trees from MtG onwards (I can't wait to play a monarchic Italy, fighting alongside the Allies against the Reich) and maybe with one or two of the changes I proposed in this thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/some-suggestions-for-italy-with-some-updates.1390804/

I am working on an Italy mod and would love to incorporate many of these ideas. Some I’ve already built in. Interested in consulting? If not I may implement these and credit your thread

 

[him_15]

Italy is my favourite nation to play. And what bother me the most is the lack of enough historical general and admiral.

 

[APostrofi]

I quite like playing Italy, but like everyone is saying, they have fallen behind in the "fun" factor compared to countries with newer and more dynamic national focus trees.

I think what Paradox will end up doing will be to make them initially much weaker with debilitating national spirits you have to get rid of. This allows them to give you those powerful individual focuses on different branches that can take Italy into different directions. I'd say if you like starting with the four research options, better get your playthrough in while you can (since I bet they are going to push that down to three or even two).

 

[Simone87]

I am working on an Italy mod and would love to incorporate many of these ideas. Some I’ve already built in. Interested in consulting? If not I may implement these and credit your thread

I'm glad to know that my work was useful. Send me a pm with the detail of your proposal, so I can see it is something I can do.

 

[kettyo]

there’s just no scenario where Hitler formed a true long lasting alliance with the Soviets.

Sure but there are many such cases in the game. Also you can't know what they have done in case they faced even more overwhelming odds than in reality.

Edit: Even the historical Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was deemed impossible before it actually happened. So with even more dire odds it's not so far fetched that Germany opts for a full alliance i think.

 

[Simone87]

there’s just no scenario where Hitler formed a true long lasting alliance with the Soviets.

It'd have been a temporary alliance, a bit like the Soviet-USA one

 

[kettyo]

It'd have been a temporary alliance, a bit like the Soviet-USA one

Yes, with an option for Germany to break the alliance after their common enemies are defeated.

But this would result in Germany and his puppets leave and everyone else remain in the Axis and be at war with them to be interesting

 

[Ffire]

Italy is by far my favorite country. I would be very happy with a rework
Atm its way more powerful in game than historically.

 

[squid_hills]

I dig Italy a lot more than I thought I would. The focus tree is complete pants, but there are mods for that. Personally, I run "Better Italy" which bulks up the industrial part of the tree, but also adds a national spirit called "Industrial Incompetence" which gives a -20% cap on industrial production, efficiency, and division attack and defense (yup; it borks industry and your army at the same time). There's a NF to get rid of it about 5 or so focuses into the tree, but if you're rushing to get it you are missing out on focuses that boost your military, affect your politics, or improve your colonial territories. I hope PDX uses something similar when they rework the Italy tree.

Anywho, after avoiding Italy for so long when I first started playing (I was frightened by its navy, not turned off by its reputation as an epic failure) I tried it out once for an achievement run, and ended up enjoying it in spite of myself. It's now one of my favorite countries to play.

But I'm curious... Is Italy's popularity due to the fact that its tree is so bad that most players ignore it? Several countries have focus trees with focuses that map out how you are going to play the game. Like, as Germany, you've got Rhineland, Anschluss, Sudetenland, WWII. Japan has purge Kodaha, Marco Polo Bridge, Strike South, then WWII. But Italy? Your political tree is: join Germany, join Spain (lol) or go solo, with only one or two focuses giving you a war goal. I mean, "Claims on Yugoslavia" just gives you a claim on Yugoslavia, it doesn't give you a war goal. You raise WT with the focus, then raise it more with your manual justification. Who actually does that in game? It's better to ignore your tree and declare on Yugo manually. Or, since everybody and their dog is guaranteeing Yugo's independence just ignore them completely and attack someone else.

And when I look at Italy videos on Youtube, that's what I see: players completely ignoring the political side of Italy's tree (well, they go as far as "eat Albania" because free country) and just doing whatever. It's how I play Italy, myself: start wars of opportunity, grab resources and factories, then decide which side you will (temporarily) back in whichever war ends up breaking out.

Is this why Italy is so fun to play as? Is this flexibility brought on by having such a crap tree that players have to make their own fun? What do you guys think?

 

[justtxyank]

I dig Italy a lot more than I thought I would. The focus tree is complete pants, but there are mods for that. Personally, I run "Better Italy" which bulks up the industrial part of the tree, but also adds a national spirit called "Industrial Incompetence" which gives a -20% cap on industrial production, efficiency, and division attack and defense (yup; it borks industry and your army at the same time). There's a NF to get rid of it about 5 or so focuses into the tree, but if you're rushing to get it you are missing out on focuses that boost your military, affect your politics, or improve your colonial territories. I hope PDX uses something similar when they rework the Italy tree.

Anywho, after avoiding Italy for so long when I first started playing (I was frightened by its navy, not turned off by its reputation as an epic failure) I tried it out once for an achievement run, and ended up enjoying it in spite of myself. It's now one of my favorite countries to play.

But I'm curious... Is Italy's popularity due to the fact that its tree is so bad that most players ignore it? Several countries have focus trees with focuses that map out how you are going to play the game. Like, as Germany, you've got Rhineland, Anschluss, Sudetenland, WWII. Japan has purge Kodaha, Marco Polo Bridge, Strike South, then WWII. But Italy? Your political tree is: join Germany, join Spain (lol) or go solo, with only one or two focuses giving you a war goal. I mean, "Claims on Yugoslavia" just gives you a claim on Yugoslavia, it doesn't give you a war goal. You raise WT with the focus, then raise it more with your manual justification. Who actually does that in game? It's better to ignore your tree and declare on Yugo manually. Or, since everybody and their dog is guaranteeing Yugo's independence just ignore them completely and attack someone else.

And when I look at Italy videos on Youtube, that's what I see: players completely ignoring the political side of Italy's tree (well, they go as far as "eat Albania" because free country) and just doing whatever. It's how I play Italy, myself: start wars of opportunity, grab resources and factories, then decide which side you will (temporarily) back in whichever war ends up breaking out.

Is this why Italy is so fun to play as? Is this flexibility brought on by having such a crap tree that players have to make their own fun? What do you guys think?

Yes there is no question that helps. I do not like focus trees that force you to do everything in a specific order and I don't like feeling like my gameplay is controlled by the focus tree.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

The question is NOT If Italy gets a rework but When will it happen?

 

[TalyonUngol]

The question is NOT If Italy gets a rework but When will it happen?

Oh, it'll happen on a Wednesday.

 

[Gurkhal]

Game doesn't need to be Dark Souls. It's good that the game isn't too difficult to jump into.

As a very, very casual playe of HoI4 this is something which strikes a cord for me. I wouldn't mind a Dark Souls-level of difficulty for the pros but not for us poor, wretched casuals, easy going is fine.

 

[Jays298]

Italy is one of the best IMO because it really forces you to consider strategic goals rather than just do everything. You can't just draw a front and check a box with them...you have to really think about Africa, the middle east, the Mediterranean, defense of Italy, Even France, the Balkans, etc.

They can't win the war but they delay losing the war or allow Germany to win, plus they can get oil, export oil and rubber, with conquests and refineries.

Their focus tree is basically done by 1940. Yes there's lots of junk focuses. And their generals are mostly worthless. A shame they can't borrow a German general.

I think they are one of the better playable powers. (I usually do USA or GER.).

The only thing that really hinders me as Italy is no naval strategy and not really understanding MTG. And AI naval invasion spam, kind of tedious.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Italy isn't a terrible country. They have the ability to become a superpower and I will say, its pretty easy if you get the right circumstances. It does require the game to go a certain way for this to be an easy smooth transition.

That being said, Italy is just really boring to play for the most part. You have very limited generals and field marshals, they are generally very very bad, the focus tree is boring and doesn't really make for engaging gameplay. Africa doesn't feel worthwhile to fight in((Not Italys fault)).

Italy is still one of my favorite nations to play, however.