how play bizance ?

[cuendillar]

Reading the diplomatic landscape to find the best alliances is an underrated skill. However, I'm not so sure that Muscovy/Russia is a great choice. They're likely to draw you into wars against Kazan etc and won't be that easy to call offensively due to distance and their weak early economy. They'd be valuable against the PLC, but that's not a high-priority direction to expand anyway. Mamluks are probably a better pick for a friend (usually possible thanks to having the Ottomans as a common enemy) since they force the Ottos into a two-front land war and have a decent navy. Bohemia and either France or Spain are reasonable picks too.
Generally speaking, I divide potential allies into three different categories depending on long-term plans:

1. Longterm/permanent allies - countries in a strong position to help out, but where you have no intention to expand. These are ones where you should always make sure are as strong as possible by helping them expand, giving them lots of land in peace treaties and actively supporting them militarily.

2. Medium-term allies - major countries on the opposite side of your main enemies, but that you plan to eventually betray once those are down. They work both as a deterrent and weapon but are allowed/encouraged to take the brunt of the damage during conflicts.

3. Short-term allies - countries that really aren't interesting for more than being called into a single war with a promise of land that you (typically) intend to honour in order to give some extra armies or opening extra fronts. Since you probably will break the alliance after the war ends, going over diplo relations for this isn't a big deal. Note that the 'threatened' status towards your target almost guarantees that they won't join you in the war so check both that and make sure they actually want any land from your target before suggesting such an alliance.

 

[pzmause]

 

[pzmause]

i thinks now i am good ,just after win vs mamelook and take 2800 ducats , i have 100 influance of clerc how lost lit ?

 

[Nikita1992]

i thinks now i am good ,just after win vs mamelook and take 2800 ducats , i have 100 influance of clerc how lost lit ?

How did you allow the Mamluks to grow so much? It was necessary to divide Hungary with Poland, otherwise it all goes to Austria...( Austria, of course, is increasing very seriously with the latest patches ( I see that you are an ally with her, but as the commentator correctly noted above, sometimes allies should not be allowed to increase like that...
Corfu does not want to become your vassal? Theodoro might have agreed, too....

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I gave this a go yesterday, just to see how it feels in 1.33 beta patch. Allied a bunch of garbage at start, Karaman + Trebizond + Serbia + Theodoro. Ottomans opted to attack Dulkadir first, which might have been lucky (hard to say on new patches).

I recruited free company mercs, otherwise just built galleys.



Naval barrage --> assault --> strait is blocked



First peace deal...I'm not sure how the Ottomans got on this side of strait. I had land occupied, so they shouldn't have been able to insta-land, and it doesn't look like they had access. This forced me to peace out a bit early/take less than I'd have liked.



Situation after a couple more wars, with Turkish vassal released in east (the yellow nation). I only fought Ottoman troops maybe 3 times across all the wars, each time attacking an outnumbered stack strait-trapped onto Constantinople. Otherwise, wars were won by barrage --> assault forts and blocking Ottoman army from reaching. I scutage vassals in Anatolia so Ottomans can't get score from those. In most recent 2 wars, after sieging out Ottomans on my side, I would put defensive edict on Constantinople, let them cross, trap them, and assault stuff in Anatolia resulting in what you see here.

Siege assaults hurt and cost some military points, but I think it's fewer casualties than actually fighting Ottoman armies at this point, lol.

This isn't setting any records, but it's a workable position that doesn't need much in the way of alliances, just to not be Ottoman 1st target. I think if they attack Albania + Venice trade league first it is harder though, since you will have to siege race them by taking stuff in Anatolia rather than in Greece. Likely less in first war, though as long as you fish out enough score to block strait in future wars it's probably fine.

 

[pzmause]

oh nice ! , i just lost my defensive war on mamlook , russia and austria my best allied just exit alliance 36k vs 130k fun lol but in end I destroyed 260k of troops, using the fleet to block and open the bosphorus and destroy the troops in small groups, damn I'm 4 tech more than I had


now i don't know how i can't take the south of bosphore if russia (austria is puppet of russia ) not coming in war

 

[pzmause]

I gave this a go yesterday, just to see how it feels in 1.33 beta patch. Allied a bunch of garbage at start, Karaman + Trebizond + Serbia + Theodoro. Ottomans opted to attack Dulkadir first, which might have been lucky (hard to say on new patches).

I recruited free company mercs, otherwise just built galleys.



Naval barrage --> assault --> strait is blocked



First peace deal...I'm not sure how the Ottomans got on this side of strait. I had land occupied, so they shouldn't have been able to insta-land, and it doesn't look like they had access. This forced me to peace out a bit early/take less than I'd have liked.



Situation after a couple more wars, with Turkish vassal released in east (the yellow nation). I only fought Ottoman troops maybe 3 times across all the wars, each time attacking an outnumbered stack strait-trapped onto Constantinople. Otherwise, wars were won by barrage --> assault forts and blocking Ottoman army from reaching. I scutage vassals in Anatolia so Ottomans can't get score from those. In most recent 2 wars, after sieging out Ottomans on my side, I would put defensive edict on Constantinople, let them cross, trap them, and assault stuff in Anatolia resulting in what you see here.

Siege assaults hurt and cost some military points, but I think it's fewer casualties than actually fighting Ottoman armies at this point, lol.

This isn't setting any records, but it's a workable position that doesn't need much in the way of alliances, just to not be Ottoman 1st target. I think if they attack Albania + Venice trade league first it is harder though, since you will have to siege race them by taking stuff in Anatolia rather than in Greece. Likely less in first war, though as long as you fish out enough score to block strait in future wars it's probably fine.

after no game is the same, and the flow depends mainly on the positioning of the Ottoman troops, because if they are all in the north, it becomes complicated

i thinks i have restart in 2 week 50x ^^

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If Ottomans attack Albania (and Venice trade league), you can enable defensive edict on capital and make a run on Anatolia, assaulting down first fort (which should probably be the war goal). Aq Qoyunlu is a complicating factor there, however, because it will prevent you carpeting.

The one advantage to this scenario is that you can wait until the Ottomans are marching significantly far west towards Venice, giving some time to make a run on them.

I think the only scenario that is borderline unrecoverable is when Ottomans pick you as first target, as then blocking the strait is less feasible. Though if you ally Karaman and Trebizond before it happens like I did in my game, they might choose to siege those first or otherwise move into Anatolia, giving a window. And in this situation, they would be unlikely to have Aq Qoyunlu/other allies on their side.

Having naval advantage + naval barrage/assault is a major advantage in this conflict.

 

[Zoot1337]

Generally speaking, after you have defeated the Ottomans for the first time you want to look into allying the mameluks, Austria or some other great power that can help you expand or at least shield you from attacks (like muscovy/Russia).

If you ally the mameluks you can dictate their expansion east and effectively negate them a lot of land.

Another intelligent move is realising Bulgaria from one of your territories and vassal feeding in the second war. In the meantime, annexing Serbia and vassaling Bosnia can be a good way to quickly complete your conquest of the Balkans. Another possibility is to ally a Beylik if they get attacked by the Ottomans (after the first war) to cut truce timers.

Another thing to be aware of is that by 1490 Naples has good chances of getting Independence from Aragon, making it a good opportunity to get a foothold in Italy. And don't forget Shadow Kingdom for expansion in Northern Italy.

 

[Methuen of Melnibone]

There's definitely a lot more RNG in that strategy from reddit - all of this is savescum time, and none of it is predictable so it's hard to put a run together this way.
Before 1450 / end of the first war -
1 - the Ottomans must not ally someone with decent navy - finding 12k Tunisian troops behind me was a nasty shock, and causes the loans to run up as you hire mercs to counter. Ottomans must mothball their forts otherwise they can't be assaulted without a stack of loans / mercenaries.
2 - the Hungarians must take the regency, otherwise you're loosing Serbia/Herzegovina/Bosnia before you have a chance at them
3 - Austria-Hungary union must not happen early - otherewise they will have Wallachia & attack you at some point
4 - Venice must not rival/warn you - if they do, they will attack at some point with superior troops / navy
5 - your ruler / heir must not die and land you with a low-legitimacy heir and the inevitable magic 20k stack of rebels

Basically you get the Ottoman RNG right, but the Hungarian is wrong, or get those two right and the Austrian event fires; or get that right and the Venetians attack you...

If you make it to the end of your first war with some manpower, gold, no loans, and are able to attack Serbia ? the RNG Gods have truly smiled.

I do wish Paradox would make it faster to launch from a savegame - it's tedious killing the game & then having to through steam / launcher / menu every time RNG breaks a Byzantine start

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ottomans mothballed nothing in my run. I don't think you need Hungary RNG to be favorable either, though obviously the more things that bounce your way the easier it is.