How many planetary rebellions have you experienced, either in your own empire or in an AI empire? I've personally never see one, and I want to know how common they are.
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How often do you see a Planetary Rebellion?
- Thread starter TheOutcastVirus
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In my empire, I can only recall one - a planet that I had just conquered from a Fanatic Purifier rebelled and rejoined its homeland shortly after the war ended.
I've seen a handful in AI empires, usually in planets that are entirely slaves - a xenophobe awakened empire that had conquered a bunch of planets lost a few to rebellions, and every once in a while an invaded primitive world will break free from a slaving empire. They're pretty rare, though - like, one every other game rare.
I've seen a handful in AI empires, usually in planets that are entirely slaves - a xenophobe awakened empire that had conquered a bunch of planets lost a few to rebellions, and every once in a while an invaded primitive world will break free from a slaving empire. They're pretty rare, though - like, one every other game rare.
Basically what @InvisibleBison says - basically any empire that uses slaves, then conquers a planet will sometime get rebellions, usually because the AI won't send its own population take on the ruler and specialist jobs, so they have freshly conquered planets where the entire population are slaves, thereby making them have incredibly low stability and low pop happiness.
Same is true of machine intelligence empires which don't manage stability well. But again I've run AI tests where Machine intelligences run at 0% stability for decades with still no rebellions.
Same is true of machine intelligence empires which don't manage stability well. But again I've run AI tests where Machine intelligences run at 0% stability for decades with still no rebellions.
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I got to see (unmodded) rebelling planets two times, both of which were slave uprisings: The first time was at some point between the 1.2 'Asimov' patch and the 1.5 'Banks' patch when they had the two different slave factions and the emancipation faction; I vaguely remember actively trying to get one by intentionally playing badly, only for the rebellion to die to my defending armies when they took up arms.
The second time was last week when I bought and first tried out the Necroid DLC's Necrophage Origin, invaded neighbouring primitives and didn't quite realize that only the founding/main species can take ruler jobs, had low Stability for a while and sort of forgot about the planet when a nearby Hegemonic Imperialist started an early war. At some point, I got all the Events about how slaves were radicalizing and I thought "On the one hand, finally, internal politics (kinda, sorta, not really), on the other, I need to win that war and for that I need al the resources I can get, so I'll just put some cheap slave armies on the planet with the rebelling slaves and be done with it."
This time the rebellion succeeded, the planet formed it's own one-system empire next to my capital that immediately closed it's borders and I learned after almost five years of playing this game that slave armies join slave rebellions instead of fighting them like every other army type.
Beside that, I've never had any sort of rebellion (barring the almost obligatory AI Rebellion - both the "modern" civil war and the spaceport destruction simulator that got replaced by the Contingency) occur in any of my games.
The second time was last week when I bought and first tried out the Necroid DLC's Necrophage Origin, invaded neighbouring primitives and didn't quite realize that only the founding/main species can take ruler jobs, had low Stability for a while and sort of forgot about the planet when a nearby Hegemonic Imperialist started an early war. At some point, I got all the Events about how slaves were radicalizing and I thought "On the one hand, finally, internal politics (kinda, sorta, not really), on the other, I need to win that war and for that I need al the resources I can get, so I'll just put some cheap slave armies on the planet with the rebelling slaves and be done with it."
This time the rebellion succeeded, the planet formed it's own one-system empire next to my capital that immediately closed it's borders and I learned after almost five years of playing this game that slave armies join slave rebellions instead of fighting them like every other army type.
Beside that, I've never had any sort of rebellion (barring the almost obligatory AI Rebellion - both the "modern" civil war and the spaceport destruction simulator that got replaced by the Contingency) occur in any of my games.
I saw plenty of rebellions pre-2.2. I'd say at least five on average per game, though usually in AI empires. I have yet to see a single rebellion in a game post-2.2.
Stability is simply broken in how easy it is to keep high.
Stability is simply broken in how easy it is to keep high.
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Same here.
Planetary rebellions are something I remember with nostalgia, not something I think about currently.
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A planetary what?
More seriously, pre-2.2. It's MUCH harder to upset your population since 2.2, and much harder for an upset population to cause problems.
More seriously, pre-2.2. It's MUCH harder to upset your population since 2.2, and much harder for an upset population to cause problems.
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While not often, I did see several post 2.2: some split away from xenophobic Khanate remnants; most common one is machine empire employing organic batteries without supervision (up to the point where it loses its capital planet to rebellion on some low-populated habitat).
Never on my worlds.
Once I saw some rebels break free from marauders (and get immediately re-annexed).
There are effectively 4 kinds of rebels/revolts in the game currenty:
Both the defines properties from above AND pop political power need to be re-balanced to make rebellions more likely, and generally make planets more volatile/less stable.
Once I saw some rebels break free from marauders (and get immediately re-annexed).
There are effectively 4 kinds of rebels/revolts in the game currenty:
- Vassals/hygemonic-underlings declaring independence wars
- I've literally never seen this happen - due to player vassals not getting difficulty modifiers (so vassals are always weak - AIs use relative power to decide to revolt or not - and potential allies are "valued" at 1/2 their actual fleet power. So for a vassal revolt to even be possible, your combined #vassals that hate you need like 2.5x your own economic/fleet/science power).
- And I just assume hegemonic vassals are broken somehow, its known that federal AIs dont propose federal cohesion or law changes in 2.8.1, so this isnt a big leap.
- Machine uprisings (easily cheesable/avoidable by giving them rights and basically only happens once in a game)
- "rebellions" - basically any kind of revolt from low stability, the outcome might differ based on the types of pops rebelling:
- slave revolts (can happen rarely from time to time if you make a purge world, or the AI screws up)
- Secession revolts (searches for original owner of world - very rarely happens)
- independence revolts - if #2 above fails planet/system declares independence
Code:
MIN_PLANET_STABILITY = 0
LOW_PLANET_STABILITY = 25 # Used for alert
BASE_PLANET_STABILITY = 50
MAX_PLANET_STABILITY = 100
LOW_HAPPINESS_STABILITY_EFFECT = -50 # If all pops have 0% happiness, stability is impacted this much
HIGH_HAPPINESS_STABILITY_EFFECT = 30 # If all pops have 100% happiness, stability is impacted this much
POP_CRIME = 2 # From each pop with happiness (scaled inversely to happiness)
MIN_PLANET_AMENITIES = 0.25 # Mult of amenities to amenities needs
MAX_PLANET_AMENITIES = 2.0 # Mult of amenities to amenities needs- We get an alert of low stab at 25%. But Rebellion events wont fire until 10% stab.
- If every pop is at 0 happiness [something that is legitimately hard to pull off thanks to amenities scaling] you get -50% stab - this only offsets the "base" stability, if every pop has 0 happiness.
- But if you have even 2-3 of the below bonuses (and you'll often have way more) from below, your "net" stability will always be >10% - making it literally impossible for rebellions to fire.
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- Likewise you only need 2-4 of the above modifiers to hit 100% stability. As, you'll regularly be hovering at the 50+30 (80) happiness in most cases as pops are SO EASY to make happy (whilst being very hard to make unhappy - particularly those like rulers with lots of PP).
- To make stability less positively biased, I would:
- Let rebellions fire at 0% - 25% stability (rather than 0-10)
- Change LOW_HAPPINESS_STABILITY_EFFECT = -100 (instead of -50)
- Change HIGH_HAPPINESS_STABILITY_EFFECT = 15 (instead of 30)
- Reduce the HIGH_HAPPINESS_STABILITY_EFFECT to 15
- reduce MAX_PLANET_AMENITIES from 2.0 (200%) to 1.5 (150%) (this property informs how much of a "free" happiness modifier you get by overbuilding amenities. Its horribly cheesy and I personally think this was included to justify earlier versions of the AI sometimes overbuilding amenities structures.
Code:
MIN_POLITICAL_POWER_POSITIVE_STABILITY_IMPACT = 0.0
MAX_POLITICAL_POWER_POSITIVE_STABILITY_IMPACT = 20
MIN_POLITICAL_POWER_NEGATIVE_STABILITY_IMPACT = 0.05
MAX_POLITICAL_POWER_NEGATIVE_STABILITY_IMPACT = 20- Ideally there would also be more random events or chains on worlds that could temporarily increase or decrease planet (or ruler/specialist/worker) happiness/PP, leading to positive or negative runs on Stability, causing rebellions or productivity boosts.
- More active political factions (which currently do nothing but are a component of Pop happiness) could also lead to stability swings. If you have a ton of militarist faction pops on a world, and their leader gets elected, that could be a big boost. But if they come second, an "election rigging" claim might fire, leading to instability on that world, as those pops become unhappy.
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I've seen planetary rebellions pretty consistently (even with huge +20-35 stability difficulty modifiers) from one specific scenario: AI machine empires conquering organics and battery-fying them, ESPECIALLY primitives (since that doesn't trigger land appropriation). There will usually be some many open complex drone jobs that without getting rid of them (which the AI will never do), there won't be any maintenance drones on the planet for literal decades, and so the planet gets -45 to -50 stability from approval rating (depending on whether its a primitive world or not and planet population) AND the maximum amenity penalty for decades, which combined with the higher threshold for revolts from slaves (or rather, slaves radicalizing and deviancy events tanking stability further), leads to a LOT of rebellions, especially since Starnet machines are conquest-hungry.
Hilariously, I've actually seen this save machine empires before. Once, the only chokepoint separating an ME and an overwhelming FP (at war with each other) rebelled and closed borders to the FP. Since the AI will NEVER declare war when already at war, this meant that the war continued for decades with neither side able to touch the other until FP war exhaustion hit 100 (which takes a very long time based purely on attrition).
Hilariously, I've actually seen this save machine empires before. Once, the only chokepoint separating an ME and an overwhelming FP (at war with each other) rebelled and closed borders to the FP. Since the AI will NEVER declare war when already at war, this meant that the war continued for decades with neither side able to touch the other until FP war exhaustion hit 100 (which takes a very long time based purely on attrition).
It happens to me at least once a game, and it often happens to the AI. Unfortunately by the time it happens, it's usually irrelevant because the only reason it happens is I have too many sectors and too many planets to manage. I've noticed that some combinations of Ethics & Civics the AI cannot manage well, namely anything that involved Spiritualism or Megacorps (or worse, both). Fanatical Purifiers are completely impotent in 99% of my games, and hive minds (organic or robot) are the most reliable allies. Starnet AI is dramatically better in war time, enemy fleets are coordinated and will aggressively attack exposed territory, but it still has no way to build for the future. I haven't even hit Battleships in my current game on Admiral, and I've already conquered a third of the galaxy.
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3.0 should help with this, by shuffling alloy/cg jobs over to Districts (which AIs - in my experience/tests - tend to manage better) their economies ought to be a little more robust. It also sounds like Ais will be able to build ecumenopoli, which will rely on city or industrial districts (though we'll have to see how that goes).
Either way, it wont fix everything, the issues with economic AI are mechanical and these changes don't go far enough. IMO they also need to deal with the below:
- AI science scaling is an issue - Science labs should also be converted into science districts on planets (science labs feel like a hold over from tiles when we had Science split into engineering, biology and physics labs). Better Science allocation is essential for obvious reason.
- AI Strategic resource management - Tier 2+ buildings should have their monthly strategic upkeep costs converted into a large upfront strategic upkeep cost (e.g. 1 rare crystal p/m > 500 rare crystal upfront cost). This would also mean rebalancing Strat-resource costs and outputs elsewhere, of course and isn't a quick fix.
- Higher tier buildings give more jobs but poor budgeting means the AI often struggles with this, either not upgrading buildings and tanking its growth potential, or running resource deficits and draining its energy reserves from monthly purchases. This is doubly bad when its science labs the AI is struggling to upgrade.
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never, not even when purging whole planets after annexing alien worlds as purifier civics
Every other game, for me. Though I’ve only once had it happen to me instead of some AI somewhere. The one time I had it happen to me, I was playing Driven Assimilators, and it happened on one of my Machine Worlds. I’m still not sure how it happened; the rebellion apparently spawned an entirely new species rather than someone I’d assimilated into my collective, and from what I understand, gestalt drones aren’t supposed to be able to rebel...
I thought that Deviance could (in theory) cause a rebellion.
"In theory" because like other planetary rebellions it's just not something I worry about.
I never had rebellions on my own planets, but in my plays with UNE planets and habitats regularly swap to my side after big wars between other empires, even if i had never touched these systems before. Always feels a bit a bit odd to gain a planet somewhere in the nowhere for no reason. This also leads to idiotic wars with foreign empires far away because of border friction.
I guess these are kind of "rebellions" in other empires, but they are caused by the inability of the AI to manage captured colonies after a war.
I guess these are kind of "rebellions" in other empires, but they are caused by the inability of the AI to manage captured colonies after a war.